Best Rules for Automatic Weapons

[Aussiegamer]

I put recoil into my system.

And my 100 round FRA tight burst does 4d6 (large ballistic weapon) x10, so on average 140 damage. Is that DEADLY enough?

 

[Ranger REG]

I put recoil into my system.

And my 100 round FRA tight burst does 4d6 (large ballistic weapon) x10, so on average 140 damage. Is that DEADLY enough?

That depends. How many reams of character sheets have you used up in one game session?

 

[Ranger REG]

I'm all for further options.
Further options allow me to include them or not.
So... are they crucial enough to be necessary?
Probably not.
But I welcome the option to include it if I want.

Fair enough.

 

[Aussiegamer]

That depends. How many reams of character sheets have you used up in one game session?

That depends if they want to wear armour, stand in the open or not.

This sits pretty well with moderns fort save for massive damage that drops you to -1hp.

I have 15 body points, 12 of which can only have a maximum from one attack of 20% of the creatures uninjured hp. The damage still counts for staggering, grevious wounds and massive wounds though. Thus a foot being blown off will not necessarily kill you, but a neck, torso or head will.

Last session I had a 1st level PC fire off 3 twenty round bursts at a 11hp creature, one missed and two hit it in the upper right leg for a massive 4 hp total damage. Thus it is not that easy to kill someone BUT the threat is there for them.

 

[Ranger REG]

That depends if they want to wear armour, stand in the open or not.

Better than taking cover inside an Abrams MBT, but I'm guessing you uparmored it beyond the default 64 hp stat.

 

[Aussiegamer]

you seemed to have not read my ideas again.

If you had read it you would see that if the a single round could not penetrate then no rounds will until the armour is destroyed.

The vehicles will have "hard" armour and thus a high AC for good deflection. A tight 100 round burst gets the extra damage but no extra to hit, thus the chances are any way that the rounds will "bounce" off causing no damage to either the armour or the vehicle.

considering the attack is from a belt feed automatic only weapon such as a minigun or m60 style weapon then it might, just might, be base on real world factors. (wiats for the usual ranger reg,....I hate real life blah blah blah statement).

Looking at high powered weaponary coming at you should be deadly, that the point of it. Get hit by a RPG and I think you would be pretty much spread all over the place.

But it is a good point and one I am thinking about still. Maybe using ineffective weapons (-2 sized weapons which fails to penetrate are deemed to have caused no effective damage to the armour), or boosting the amount of hp for the armour. :\

As always a work in progress.

 

[frankthedm]

Realistic burst, autofire, etc rules cause players to steer away from gun fights or reach for new character sheets. BLAMBLAMBLAM from an M16=dead. Because Players stay away from gunfights in real life[most of us, anyhow] when they play getting near the danger has some attraction.

D20 is a system of take the hits and roll with them, making autofire Systems always feel off.

 

[Aussiegamer]

well I have had my first players v gm gun fight and it was a hoot.

A PC one shotted a 0 level NPC in the neck and kill him. The first round of the day. :\

A NPC hit the 2nd level PC in his armoured necked and staggered him for 3 rounds, hurting him bad, but he lived.

A PC shoot a bad guy in his arm staggering him for 4 rounds, and then shot him through the brain pan the next shoot.

A critical shoot through 2 sides of a shack's wooden walls and into the bad guy armoured vest hurt him but he was able to shoot back.

So for me it seems to work quite well, sure instant death, but also a grerat deal of fun was had by all.

 

[Peterson]

Now, I'm not going to say that the rules - including the Autofire ones - are perfect, but I agree with a few others in here that have said, basically, "Autofire that is too deadly is not fun for the players".

True, PCs that get to go around and blast NPCs that drop from one Autofire (due to houserules) are going to love it (well, most Players are). However, there is another rule that, unless you've houseruled it out, makes it just as deadly for the PCs. I think that rule's unofficial title is "What's good for the goose is good for the gander". Basically speaking, that means if the houseruled Autofire rules are more powerful against the NPCs, the same is true against the PCs.

I don't know about your games, but in mind - my players get a little sick of writing up characters because they keep getting killed, and they especially dislike being killed (easily) due to a houserule. Of course - this may just be my players. They like to invest time into building and developing their characters - often keeping journals, searching the net for pictures of their characters, etc - and, while we don't go out of our way to keep them alive (i.e. we don't make it harder to kill the PCs via houserules), we don't - at the same time - make it easier to kill NPCs.

I believe the rules, as written, were written to make the games feel more cinematic, more "Die Hard" than realistic. Of course, that's the Holy Grail, isn't it? Making a game that's realistic.....and still fun. In my experience, you can only have one or the other - and I personally perfer fun. I'll show an example of what I mean though.

"Fun" (with successful Reflex saves): As you charge across the No Man's Land between the border of South Korea and North Korea, the ground around you erupts with mortar explosions and gunfire kicking up dust behind you. With just a few scratchs from flying debris, you make it to the relative saftey of South Korea.

"Realistic" (with successful Reflex saves): As you charge across the No Man's Land between the border of South Korea and North Korea, the ground around you erupts with mortar explosions, throwing you prone from the sheer concussion. As you struggle back to your feet, the enemy's heavy machine gun opens up, and bullets tear into the ground at your feet and into your body, dropping you to a single knee. You are bleeding badly, but thankfully none of the bullets hit anything vital. As you take a quick moment of rest, to regain your bearings through the pain....a sniper's bullet penetrates your forehead, snapping your head back, killing you instantly.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that in the "Realistic" example, I assumed a few things - such as the Sniper being able to successfully make a Called Shot to the head....but then again, realistically-speaking, is it so hard to believe that a professionally-trained Sniper, firing on a target that is immobile, wouldn't be able to make that shot?

Just my thoughts on the matter. Use as you will.

Peterson

 

[Nebulous]

Doesn't Grim Tales have a pretty extensive autofire and modern weapon feat and damage system?