Best Spell to Maximize

[IceBear]

Well but I'm just saying that there should be a difference between making something seem like something else and then making something something else.

I agree with you there, but without further rules I don't know what that is. There doesn't seem to be anything different about being invisible and seeming to be invisible so I take that term just to mean that it's not permanently changed. Also, because they are talking in generalities here, if you made a sword shaped like club, it's still a sword and thus would still cut you if you touched it - I think that's why they say seem.

IceBear

 

[S'mon]

Once again, that's a pretty poor arguement. Sure, it's only a low level spell and it only effects sonic energy. What the heck do you think the 7th level spell does!? It stops, guess what...1 kind of energy. Don't you get it? What you and IceBear are proposing is that a 2nd level spell duplicates the effects of a 7th level spell, providing everything within a 15-foot radius complete, total, and absolute immunity to all Sonic energy attacks, and even better still, it completely prevents the casting of all spells that require verbal components.

There's something terribly wrong with that.

No there isn't.

Anti-magic shell protects from all magic, but prevents the use of all magic.

Silence protects from all sound, but prevents the use of all sound.

A spell that protects from an attack formm but _still allows_ you to use that attack form is a lot more powerful.

 

[IceBear]

The one thing that isn't being said here, is sure, maybe Silence does nerf a sonicball better than a second level spell could nerf a fireball, but you know what:

1) The original spell was a fireball, don't use energy substitution on it if you think they will counter with silence.

2) Not everyone is going to have silence, and if they do, casting silence upon themselves actually hinders them too. So sure, it might protect them from the sonicball, but now the spellcasters have to move out of the area of effect to cast their own spells. I'm fine with that.

IceBear

 

[IceBear]

And by the way kreynolds, what I'm saying here is only my opinion and is my house rule if you will. I don't know of any offical ruling saying that I'm right, so lacking that then I have to assume that it doesn't stop it.

All I'm saying is that by my understanding of the spells and how sound works it's how it *should* work in my mind.

This is much like the TS vs Mindblank thing. By the actual reading of the spells I say that it should work. However, that opened a bad can of worms so I'm ok with not allowing it just because of the problems.

The same here....I'm not currently convinced (in MY games) that this would be unbalancing and thus I go with what makes sense from a mechanics point of view. If I find that it *is* unbalancing, then I would stop using it. But right now, if they cast silence on an enemy spellcaster, then he can just step outside the area of effect and cast at them. The only way to be sure it will block the sonic damage is to cast it on themselves which then has the consequences of making their own lives more difficult.

IceBear

 

[Bonedagger]

Bonedagger, read Sean Reynold's rant on invisibility here:

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/invismindaffecting.html

Then remember that both it and Silence are glamers, and remember that it affects an area, not specifically a creature (it just moves with a creature if it's targetted on it).

IceBear

Thanks for the link... Hmm. I can remember 2 Ed. when very high Int could make you immune to illusions....

Deleted.

 

[kreynolds]

2) Not everyone is going to have silence, and if they do, casting silence upon themselves actually hinders them too. So sure, it might protect them from the sonicball, but now the spellcasters have to move out of the area of effect to cast their own spells. I'm fine with that.

That's a very good point, but I'm not quite convinced yet.

 

[kreynolds]

This is much like the TS vs Mindblank thing.

Yeah, I remember how that one turned out too.

 

[Magic Rub]

K.R. again I ask...
What 7th level spell are you speaking of? (excuse my ignorance please)


Antimagic Field? (it's only 6th lvl)

 

[Magic Rub]

What do you propose the spell dose Vs. Sonic spells? The spell says that it provides "defence vs Sonic", as well as "All sound is stopped" & "no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area.". With out sound there is no Sonic damage. Unless the spells discriptor is Force or something other then Sonic, the damage is nil.

KR, I never did get an R.S.V.P. about this. What do you say?

 

[kreynolds]

No there isn't.

Yes there is.

Anti-magic shell protects from all magic, but prevents the use of all magic.

Yup, but that spell is pretty clear.

Silence protects from all sound, but prevents the use of all sound.

Evident by the fact that the spell description even states that it prevents casting of spells that require verbal components.

A spell that protects from an attack formm but _still allows_ you to use that attack form is a lot more powerful.

I agree. But we aren't talking about a wizard making himself immune to sonic energy and allowing him to hurl sonicballs out of the field. We are talking about a 3rd level wizard negating a much higher level spell cast from even a 20th level wizard. It just makes Silence seem too overpowered, and the way I always understood areas of magical silence functioned was this: Elemental energy sonic attacks still hurt like hell, but the silenced area cancels out any secondary effects, such as deafness, etc.