Best Spell to Maximize

[IceBear]

So is invisibility, but it doesn't work by influencing your mind.

Edit:

Hmmmm - maybe I'm wrong.

Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

Thus, a silence spell (which is a glamer) would make the sound in an area *seem* to disappear.

Yes, this really needs clarification as some sound based spells fail in silence and others work.

IceBear

 

[Bonedagger]

Silence is an illusion in 3e, keep that in mind when talking about it "stopping" anything.

Good point. Missed that.

Ahh well. Maybe I should just stop trying to try and use logic when it comes to magic in D&D. Nah. I'll just rule 0 the school from [illusion] to [Abjuration]

 

[Zhure]

Instead of comparing Silence to Protection spells, compare it to an Antimagic Field. It's 6th level, forms an area that completely impedes all spells, of all elements both going in and out.

Silence is a 2nd level spell that does the same but only affects Sonic spells and spells being cast outward, from within it.

It might be a bit overpowered at 2nd level, but not terribly so, especially since it's mostly a Bard/Cleric spell.

Greg

 

[IceBear]

Good point. Missed that.

Ahh well. Maybe I should just stop trying to try and use logic when it comes to magic in D&D. Nah. I'll just rule 0 the school from [illusion] to [Abjuration]

But it doesn't matter, it's an illusion spell that affects sound, not your hearing. Reread the Glamer entry from the SRD:

Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

Subject in this case is not a person, it's the sound in the area. It says it makes it sound like something else, not that you hear something else. Invisibility is also a glamer, but if you argued that it worked because a creature's vision was effected then it would be subject to SR, and what about creatures whose mind can't be affected, etc. A Silence spell simply nullifies all sound in the area of effect, and since sonic spells cause damage by sound waves, the logical conculsion is that the spell would stop the damage.

IceBear

 

[Bonedagger]

So if it's just an illusion that makes you deaf and dumb. Then a Horn of Blasting would affect you. (In the description in the DMG p 219 you can see that it damages material things (Like stonewalls)through an ultrasonic wave) And other things in the spelldesciption would also be wrong: It wouldn't actually stop sound from entering or leaving the area.

 

[Magic Rub]

But it doesn't matter, it's an illusion spell that affects sound, not your hearing. Reread the Glamer entry from the SRD:

Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

Subject in this case is not a person, it's the sound in the area. It says it makes it sound like something else, not that you hear something else. Invisibility is also a glamer, but if you argued that it worked because a creature's vision was effected then it would be subject to SR, and what about creatures whose mind can't be affected, etc. A Silence spell simply nullifies all sound in the area of effect, and since sonic spells cause damage by sound waves, the logical conculsion is that the spell would stop the damage.

IceBear

My point exactly. This is about the same as the afore note Sean K. Reynolds rant about Invisibillity.

 

[kreynolds]

At this point, I'm going to tag Kreynolds.

Well, I guess I'm it then.

None of this matters. The bottom line is that you can't get the results of a 7th level spell out of a pissy little 2nd level spell without throwing caution, logic, and playbalance to the wind. So, quite obviously, Silence does not negate a sonicball.

I don't care about bending lightwaves or twisting soundwaves or tying up spaghetti ultraviolet noodles. I just care about the rules. It would be pretty damn silly for a 2nd level spell to duplicate a 7th level spell while also having it's own unique function, and not a single one of you in your right mind could deny that. Since I don't believe that every single designer at WotC is a complete idiot, I can only come to the assumption that Silence doesn't negate sonic damage, that it wasn't ever meant too, and that the rules don't even suggest such a thing.

Of course, that's the my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[Magic Rub]

So if it's just an illusion that makes you deaf and dumb. Then a Horn of Blasting would affect you. (In the description in the DMG p 219 you can see that it damages material things (Like stonewalls)through an ultrasonic wave) And other things in the spelldesciption would also be wrong: It wouldn't actually stop sound from entering or leaving the area.

Wrong...

Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object.The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use SR, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive saves and SR, and unattended objects and points in space do not. This spell
provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks, such as command, harpy song, a horn of blasting, etc.

Horn of blasting has been used as an example of what it stops.

 

[Bonedagger]

Subject in this case is not a person, it's the sound in the area.
IceBear

I think that's stretching the definition of a "subject" a little to far. Illusions are mindaltering. I wouldn't say that a sound have a mind.

 

[kreynolds]

A Silence spell simply nullifies all sound in the area of effect, and since sonic spells cause damage by sound waves, the logical conculsion is that the spell would stop the damage.

No. The logical conclusion would be that a 2nd level spell does not in fact grant you the same crap given by a 7th level spell, immunity to an energy type, and not just you, but a whole 15-foot radius. So, the only logical conclusion is that you're wrong.