Best Spell to Maximize

[IceBear]

I think that's stretching the definition of a "subject" a little to far. Illusions are mindaltering. I wouldn't say that a sound have a mind.

Go talk to Sean Reynolds and his Rant on Invisibility

I'm sorry, but that *IS* what it's doing. Invisibility is also an illusion and it is a glamer. But it doesn't make you invisible because it affects your mind - that's been proven in Sean's rant.

And the word "subject" in the glamer refers to the sound being affected.

IceBear

 

[Bonedagger]

Wrong...

Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object.The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use SR, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive saves and SR, and unattended objects and points in space do not. This spell
provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks, such as command, harpy song, a horn of blasting, etc.

Horn of blasting has been used as an example of what it stops.

I'm arguing why having Silence belonging to the school of illusions is wrong.

Originally posted by the Jester
Silence is an illusion in 3e, keep that in mind when talking about it "stopping" anything.

 

[IceBear]

No. The logical conclusion would be that a 2nd level spell does not in fact grant you the same crap given by a 7th level spell, immunity to an energy type, and not just you, but a whole 15-foot radius. So, the only logical conclusion is that you're wrong.

Who gives a royal, flying buffalo about a 7th level spell being duplicated by a 2nd level spell. I'd have no issue with this is using energy substitution [sonic] increased the spell level by 3 levels.

The fact that next to nothing is immune to sonic based spells and a wizard can just switch everything to sonic is unbalanced to me.

A silence spell stops sound. It doesn't stop you from hearing sound, it simply stops sound. Sonic is a sound based attack. I'm sorry but that's as simple as it gets for me.

I wish that sonic wasn't a choice in energy substitution and then I wouldn't care.

IceBear

 

[Magic Rub]

...I can only come to the assumption that Silence doesn't negate sonic damage, that it wasn't ever meant too, and that the rules don't even suggest such a thing.

What do you propose the spell dose Vs. Sonic spells? The spell says that it provides "defence vs Sonic", as well as "All sound is stopped" & "no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area.". With out sound there is no Sonic damage. Unless the spells discriptor is Force or something other then Sonic, the damage is nil.

Yes it is a low level spell, however it only affects Sonic's, & only a few classes can use it.

 

[Jeremy]

...This spell provides a defense against sonic attacks, such as a horn of blasting...

If it stops a horn of blasting or a destrachan blast, I'd say it stops a sonic ball.

For game balance equivalent I'd say that silence isn't prepared often due to lack of sonic attacks, but if it were readied against a foe you are prepared against, it'd effectively be a really limited in application anti-magic field.

Of course, you can't retaliate (or at least you are limited to spells without V components), but I'd say it's a fair use of the spell.

Gives second thoughts to the energy substitution sonic people who bypass everything's resistances.

As to Screaming weapons, I have no earthly idea why it says that. Maybe they meant it that way, maybe they meant to say it doesn't work in a silenced area. Who knows?

I just thought from the strong verbage in the Silence spell that it'd stop sound and sonic attacks like horns of blasting or sonic balls or great shouts. I could be wrong...

 

[IceBear]

Bonedagger, read Sean Reynold's rant on invisibility here:

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/invismindaffecting.html

Then remember that both it and Silence are glamers, and remember that it affects an area, not specifically a creature (it just moves with a creature if it's targetted on it).

IceBear

 

[Magic Rub]

I'm arguing why having Silence belonging to the school of illusions is wrong.

oops, sorry man

 

[Bonedagger]

Go talk to Sean Reynolds and his Rant on Invisibility

I'm sorry, but that *IS* what it's doing. Invisibility is also an illusion and it is a glamer. But it doesn't make you invisible because it affects your mind - that's been proven in Sean's rant.

And the word "subject" in the glamer refers to the sound being affected.

IceBear

Well but I'm just saying that there should be a difference between making something seem like something else and then making something something else.

 

[kreynolds]

Yes it is a low level spell, however it only affects Sonic's, & only a few classes can use it.

Once again, that's a pretty poor arguement. Sure, it's only a low level spell and it only effects sonic energy. What the heck do you think the 7th level spell does!? It stops, guess what...1 kind of energy. Don't you get it? What you and IceBear are proposing is that a 2nd level spell duplicates the effects of a 7th level spell, providing everything within a 15-foot radius complete, total, and absolute immunity to all Sonic energy attacks, and even better still, it completely prevents the casting of all spells that require verbal components.

There's something terribly wrong with that.

 

[Magic Rub]

Once again, that's a pretty poor arguement. Sure, it's only a low level spell and it only effects sonic energy. What the heck do you think the 7th level spell does!? It stops, guess what...1 kind of energy. Don't you get it? What you and IceBear are proposing is that a 2nd level spell duplicates the effects of a 7th level spell, providing everything within a 15-foot radius complete, total, and absolute immunity to all Sonic energy attacks, and even better still, it completely prevents the casting of all spells that require verbal components.

There's something terribly wrong with that.

What 7th level spell are you speaking of? (excuse my ignorance please)