Best Two Combat Feats for a Level 1 Human Rogue?

[Greyline]

3.5 PHB only, what are the best two combat feats for a 1st-level human rogue to select?

His stats:

Strength: 14
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 10
Charisma: 15

I still don't have a clear character-concept yet, so I'm basically min-maxing. Currently I'm torn between Improved Initiative and Two-Weapon Fighting, or Combat Expertise and Improved Feint. Is one of those pairs clearly superior to the other? Or is there another combo I'm overlooking? (OK, Improved Initiative and Two-Weapon Fighting isn't really a combo, just two nice feats.) He doesn't need to be on an even keel with the fighters in the party, but I would like him to be occasionally lethal, say when conditions are in his favor, or about one chance to grandstand per adventure.

Any suggestions?

Best Regards,

Greyline

 

[Darklone]

Huham... nice stats.

What about a human ftr/rog wearing heavy armour as tank? Nah, Con too low... A dwarf would be nice though.

What about TWF and a nice double weapon for Power Attack later? You'll get both things, twohanded attacks after moves (and tumbles) or TWF full attacks when already flanking. For the beginning though, I'd go with Improved Initiative.

 

[Kazuel]

Reply

Weapon Finesse would most definitly help you with getting your hit bonus up. Plus as a rogue your Hps are going to be low so maybe toughness. I know this wasn't part of your question, but if you plan to be a fighting rogue, bluff is your best friend. you only do decent dmg when sneak attacking and you need to be sneak attacking as often as you can. Improved inititive seems like a good choice but a high inititive is often wasted on the rogue. First impressions tell you that going first is great, but if you move in right away to get that flatfooted attack, you find yourself quickly surrounded by the enemy and waiting for your slow friends to rescue you. As a rogue, you want to wait until battle is engaged and pick and choose your attacks. Find the best flanking oppertunities. Sticking by the caster is also a good tactic. Smart villians will go for the cleric or nuker, when they rush in you make your move. Surviving as a rogue is all about being clever.

Some feats you may want to look into down the road to help would be

Improved Feint
Improved Trip
Improved Disarm
Expert Tactician

P.S. Tumble is a must have skill for a combat rogue. hope all this helps.

 

[Darklone]

Expert Tactician is in the PHB ?

Another nice way: Get a polearm. Combat Reflexes. Go the Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack route. Helps with sneak attacks from flanking as well as not getting hit too much by full attack actions.

Then try to get Expert Tactician later

Would be nice if you could post whether you plan on multiclassing with fighter or something different.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Could go ranged combatant: Point blank and Precise shot... ranged flanking/sneak attack can be particularly lethal. Rapid shot later...

For melee I'd go Dodge/Mobility to start and spring attack/weapon finesse later...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Improved Feint is good to get SA even without flanking/hiding. High initiative is always a good thing, for you will get more enemies flat-footed at the beginning of the round. Both improve your chances to get SA's, which is nice.

Weapon finesse is a great later option (stupid BAB +1 requirement)

TWF and Improved Initiative are a decent combo, for it increases the number of your attacks and the chance to do them before the enemy can react (move up to the enemy in the surprise round, hack away in round 1, before he can act).

In the end, it's a matter of taste.

 

[Felix]

Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
Two-Weapon Fighting

Like someone said, two weapon fighting for full attacks, two-handed goodness for single attacks, large weapon for disarm/sunder purposes, and a very easy to "conceal" weapon for a rogue. Bluff your way into the castle with your "walking stick"

 

[Darklone]

Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
Two-Weapon Fighting

Like someone said, two weapon fighting for full attacks, two-handed goodness for single attacks, large weapon for disarm/sunder purposes, and a very easy to "conceal" weapon for a rogue. Bluff your way into the castle with your "walking stick"

Duh, right. Thanks Felix. That's obviously the way to go without multiclassing into fighter for more feats.

Though I would be tempted to multiclass to druid for shillelagh goodness...

 

[Rel]

Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
Two-Weapon Fighting

Like someone said, two weapon fighting for full attacks, two-handed goodness for single attacks, large weapon for disarm/sunder purposes, and a very easy to "conceal" weapon for a rogue. Bluff your way into the castle with your "walking stick"

I like this idea. But what I was going to suggest was this:

Weapon Finesse
Combat Expertise

My thinking is this: Rogues don't generally have enough armor or hit points to hang in the fight and take a lot of abuse (your Dex helps make up for this but you don't have a shield). Your best bet is to maneuver into combat, deliver a Sneak Attack and hope to kill your foe in one shot so he doesn't get to hit you back. Two things here are key:

You need to hit.
You need to be able to Sneak Attack.

In the early going, the best way for you to get off a Sneak Attack is a flat-footed enemy or a flanked enemy. If you are standing around long enough to get Improved Feint to work, you are risking getting hit and any bad guy with a heavy weapon (Greataxe, Greatsword, etc.) can down you in one hit, even without critting.

I'd probably take Combat Expertise so I could jack up my AC a bit with an eye toward taking Improved Feint (if I roll well on my HP for 2nd and 3rd level) or Weapon Focus (if I don't) at 3rd.

 

[Korak]

Glaive Rogue

EWP: Spiked Chain, Dodge.

In later levels, pick up weapon finese, mobility, spring attack, and power attack in that order. The reach weapon, combined with spring attack lets you get in position for flanks will little danger of AOOs or remaining in full attack range after your attack. In addition, you will be able to focus on one stat (dex) for many of your skills, your AC, your reflex saves, and your hit mod. Plus, you can sacrifice some of your hit mod for damage on a 2:1 basis to maximize your one attack per round + sneak dice. If you have some tactics discussions with your party tank(s), you can ensure sneak attack with little or no risk on the majority of your combat rounds. Also, consider 2 fighter levels to accelerate the feat chain, raise your BAB (more to trade in power attack... iterative attacks are not really an issue, since you are spec'ing for one big attack per round), and more hp; if you want more of a combat focus. The build still provides very nice damage even if you stay all rogue for the skills.