silentspace
First Post
Darklone, your example looks pretty cool! Like you say, the effectiveness of any build will depend on the makeup of the rest of the party. 
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Best Two Combat Feats for a Level 1 Human Rogue?
- Thread starter Greyline
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Elder-Basilisk
First Post
At first level, it's unsurprising that a polarm fighter with dodge, mobility, and spring attack kicks but....he's breaking the rules. Spring Attack requires a +4 BAB.
As to the rest, I like Improved Initiative and Two weapon fighting.
Initiative bonusses do become a matter of diminishing returns at mid to high levels but, as many people have pointed out, a lot of foes have more than a +0 init modifier. There are plenty of creatures with high initiative modifiers out there (including other rogues and wizards/etc who took Improved Initiative--and note that Imp Init is one of the feats that commonly shows up on NPCs since most throwaway combat NPCs will never see any use out of skill focus: craft (armorsmith) or Craft Ring but will be helped by Imp Init). If your base comparison is a +4 init modifier (an NPC fighter with no dex and Imp Init), Imp Init looks a lot better.
Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack is a good route to go down as well. A lot of times, you'll have to tumble into a flank to get sneak attacks so you're only going to get one attack anyway. Spring Attack lets you get in for that sneak attack and then retreat to safety. (Incidentally, that's an argument for Martial Weap Prof: Greatsword as well--often you won't be able to make full attacks from a flanking position).
Two Weapon Fighting is another viable route. I'd recommend starting with a quarterstaff and then trading it in for a shortsword/rapier or handaxe/rapier as soon as you can afford a masterwork buckler. (The -1 to hit won't hurt when you can't make a full attack and won't hurt too much when you can. And the +1 AC (and later more) will help when you can't make full attacks). If you take a class that gives shield proficiency, you should consider Improved Buckler Defense from CW to keep the buckler bonus while attacking. (Alternately, you could switch to a light shield and take Imp Shield Bash from the PH and avoid the -1 penalty to hit at the cost of dropping your base damage from d6 to d4).
As to the rest, I like Improved Initiative and Two weapon fighting.
Initiative bonusses do become a matter of diminishing returns at mid to high levels but, as many people have pointed out, a lot of foes have more than a +0 init modifier. There are plenty of creatures with high initiative modifiers out there (including other rogues and wizards/etc who took Improved Initiative--and note that Imp Init is one of the feats that commonly shows up on NPCs since most throwaway combat NPCs will never see any use out of skill focus: craft (armorsmith) or Craft Ring but will be helped by Imp Init). If your base comparison is a +4 init modifier (an NPC fighter with no dex and Imp Init), Imp Init looks a lot better.
Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack is a good route to go down as well. A lot of times, you'll have to tumble into a flank to get sneak attacks so you're only going to get one attack anyway. Spring Attack lets you get in for that sneak attack and then retreat to safety. (Incidentally, that's an argument for Martial Weap Prof: Greatsword as well--often you won't be able to make full attacks from a flanking position).
Two Weapon Fighting is another viable route. I'd recommend starting with a quarterstaff and then trading it in for a shortsword/rapier or handaxe/rapier as soon as you can afford a masterwork buckler. (The -1 to hit won't hurt when you can't make a full attack and won't hurt too much when you can. And the +1 AC (and later more) will help when you can't make full attacks). If you take a class that gives shield proficiency, you should consider Improved Buckler Defense from CW to keep the buckler bonus while attacking. (Alternately, you could switch to a light shield and take Imp Shield Bash from the PH and avoid the -1 penalty to hit at the cost of dropping your base damage from d6 to d4).
Darklone said:Fascinating how many people still play by this "one sneak attack per round" houserule. I fear it will be included in 4.0
Yup, I was mistaken concerning sneak attack and it only applying to the first attack.
The basis for this was not necessarily house rules but the fact that the thief's backstab (precurser to rogue's sneak attack) worked that way in 2nd edition. So it was something I had not checked into in sufficient detail, especially since I haven't run a character with a sneak attack ability in 3/3.5 yet.
Now as far as the benefits of TWF, it is indeed good - but again the character is limited to a single extra attack per round with his off hand (unless he gets some epic feats along the way), I think I still prefer Point Blank Shot and eventually picking up Rapid Shot. It still helps to keep the rogue alive, since there is a range factor involved and using a missle weapon helps when attempting sneak attacks on huge plus size creatures where a normal melee weapon won't allow a critical/sneak attack.
Rallets Artois
First Post
game arena counts too
" I think I still prefer Point Blank Shot and eventually picking up Rapid Shot. It still helps to keep the rogue alive, since there is a range factor involved and using a missle weapon helps when attempting sneak attacks on huge plus size creatures where a normal melee weapon won't allow a critical/sneak attack."
I agree with this too. it also depends on where you will be conducting your adventure too. In the underdark many creatures have blind sight so you cant hide from them. You can snipe and attack from creatures that have less than 30 foot Blindsight. in combat with precise shot you can hide behind people and fight even when you cant crit it. There are lots of things out there immune to crits. and you wont ahve to tumble in and out risking yourself.
ok so you dont get flanking with a bow but the trouble with flanking is that you often have to get behind the foe to get them and whenever I'm behind someone they generally all go for the guy behind them.
or there may be a second rank just behind the 1st rank ready to hit tumbling rogues. If you are going combat rogue take 2 levels in fighter you get 2 more feats you can use +some HP. expertise (has saved my life) but I havent read the latest book out the complete fighter I hear the hidden blade is good.
" I think I still prefer Point Blank Shot and eventually picking up Rapid Shot. It still helps to keep the rogue alive, since there is a range factor involved and using a missle weapon helps when attempting sneak attacks on huge plus size creatures where a normal melee weapon won't allow a critical/sneak attack."
I agree with this too. it also depends on where you will be conducting your adventure too. In the underdark many creatures have blind sight so you cant hide from them. You can snipe and attack from creatures that have less than 30 foot Blindsight. in combat with precise shot you can hide behind people and fight even when you cant crit it. There are lots of things out there immune to crits. and you wont ahve to tumble in and out risking yourself.
ok so you dont get flanking with a bow but the trouble with flanking is that you often have to get behind the foe to get them and whenever I'm behind someone they generally all go for the guy behind them.
or there may be a second rank just behind the 1st rank ready to hit tumbling rogues. If you are going combat rogue take 2 levels in fighter you get 2 more feats you can use +some HP. expertise (has saved my life) but I havent read the latest book out the complete fighter I hear the hidden blade is good.Similar Threads
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