Best Two Combat Feats for a Level 1 Human Rogue?

[Legildur]

Improved Initiative is less useful for rogues because they already have a high dexterity (and thus a high initiative modifier <snip> It may be useful early on, but as you advance in experience, it becomes less and less useful.

I played a 3.0E halfling rogue from 1st through to 13th levels and found Improved Initiative indispensable. Even with a high Dex score, the +4 bonus meant that he had a decent initiative result even with a poor roll.

Given that his primary function was as a scout for the party, he could often move silently into an area and spy juicy opponents. Assuming surprise, he had the confidence to attempt a sneak attack with his crossbow and rely on a good initiative result to either get a second sneak attack or tactically withdraw.

And also meant that on the occasions where he was surprised, he had a fair chance to get out before getting really hurt.

As for other feats, the Combat Reflexes and EWP (spiked chain) route sound interesting, but I got good mileage from Two-Weapon Fighting for the multiple sneak attacks whilst flanking.

And don't worry too much about creatures immune to criticals. I found a useful tactic was to put my rogue in the front line, or possibly a flank, and simply use the Total Defense action (+6 to AC from 5+ ranks in Tumble skill). Combined with reasonable armor and your high Dexterity, you tended not to take too many hits, and distracted some creatures from the fighters (for which they were always greatful - particularly the raging barbarian).

 

[Scion]

Magical aptitude + skill focus(use magic device) + max ranks + good charisma + charisma boosting item + a few 3rd party things which may not be balanced = use any magical item ever!!!

yes it is a long term plan, but even right off the bat you could pick up cheap 'race only' items.. mmm..

I know it isnt as flashy as other peoples ideas.. but +11 at first level and only going up from there.. good times!

 

[Geoff Watson]

My suggestion:

Martial weapon proficiency: Greatsword.
Dodge

Deals as much damage as two shortswords, has a better chance of hitting, and more damage on a single attack.

Get Mobility at third, and Spring Attack at sixth.

This means you can spring into flanking position, then spring out without the opponents getting a chance to full attack you.

Your strength is high enough that Weapon Finesse is not that useful, and Two-Weapon Fighting requires a full attack, which means the foe is going to be able to retaliate easily.

Geoff.

 

[Darkness]

I'm thinking straight rogue until picking up Assassin at level 8. So probably no fighter levels.

Why level 8, BTW? You could take it as early as level 6. (Though I'd recommend level 7; the +1 to all saves at Rog6 is rather nice. Better yet, maybe go Rog5/Asn1 and then Rog6/Asn1 at level 7. )

Going first is very nice, but if you plan to have a very high dex in higher levels, the benefit of II begins to fade away as you advance. You end up with a wizard/sleep problem: It may be useful early on, but as you advance in experience, it becomes less and less useful.

You have a point, but it's not quite as clear-cut.

'cause you won't face mostly Dex 10 Tims at higher levels; many of your opponents scale nicely too (especially Outsiders and classed creatures), with quite a few of them having II as well.

 

[Rallets Artois]

Humans cant see in the dark

I went the human rogue route for the extra skills and feats.

Similar stats. one problem i found I was that we spend a lot of time in the underdark so I need to use a light and a light source on a rogue really defeats the object so I went shadowdancer for the 60 darkvision and Hide in plain sight ability. You have to take dodge mobility and combat reflexes for shadowdancer.

then take spring attack. you can leap in and out in the same round jumping from one shadow to another sneak attack all the way.

Its a long range plan but in 3.0 and 3.5 its important to plan at least to level 20

 

[Al]

Martial weapon proficiency: Greatsword

It does do the same base damage as two short swords, and indeed has a better chance of hitting, but you're not looking for base damage. What you need is sneak attack, which relies entirely on how *many* attacks you get.

Improved Initiative is less useful for rogues because they already have a high dexterity (and thus a high initiative modifier).

True to a point. But the people you're really trying to beat are not the melee brutes with 10 Dex. The people you need to get the drop on at high levels are the primary spellcasters before they either make themselves invulnerable (Wall of Force, Prismatic Wall) or unleash a world of pain on the party (Empowered Cone of Cold, Wail of the Banshee). Primary spellcasters in general, and arcane casters in particular, know that them going first can turn a battle. They will want to increase their Dex to respectable levels (Persistent Cat's Grace or Gloves of Dex) and probably take Improved Initiative to boot. That's why you need II: to retain the advantage.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm, no idea what the other dudes in the group have... but I had some ftr/rog and bbn/rogs once in my group.

Usually the dwarven ftr/rog with doubleweapon and heavy armour stood his ground and waited till the opponents attacked him. Then the bbn/rogs and ftr/rogs with spring attack or tumble used him to flank their opponents and delivered greataxe and greatsword single hit sneak attacks... for them 2 ftr or 2 bbn levels were enough to dish out nice damage without having to worry about going toe to toe with full attacking fighter builds, while the dwarf had the hitpoints and AC to do it while he still enjoyed some extra sneak attack damage for his TWF attacking.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Ruleslawyer, I agree with most of your ranged combat suggestions, but why Quickdraw and Improved Init first? I thought PBS would be a non-brainer and TWF at level 3 is enough instead of Rapid Shot... Quickdraw isn't needed before you get more than two attacks by iterative BAB.

Yeah; that was sorta a brain fart; I'm used to building ranged characters who take ranged PrCs, almost all of which require QD. As for Rapid Shot vs. TWF: Most DMs I know don't allow TWF with ranged weapons. If they do, go ahead!

 

[Sir Whiskers]

One feat I haven't seen mentioned is Flick of the Wrist from Song and Silence. It's prereq is Quick Draw. Basically it allows a rogue to catch an opponent flat-footed for one attack, once per combat, by quick-drawing a light weapon.

Cons:
Quick Draw is not a terribly useful feat unless you go certain routes, such as a knife-thrower or TWF.
One attack, once per combat, may not seem good enough for a feat.

Pros:
You can choose when to use this in a combat, meaning initiative is slightly less important.
By choosing the right opponent, you can turn a battle (tumble past the tanks and catch the evil sorcerer flat-footed).

You might not want to go for this right away, but it works well combined with the Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack chain.

 

[LokiDR]

Yeah; that was sorta a brain fart; I'm used to building ranged characters who take ranged PrCs, almost all of which . As for Rapid Shot vs. TWF: Most DMs I know don't allow TWF with ranged weapons. If they do, go ahead!

TWF explicitly works with thrown weapons, however. "Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon." If some DMs want to change it, that is their choice, but that isn't the standard.