Best Two Combat Feats for a Level 1 Human Rogue?

[jgsugden]

Weapon Finesse has a prerequisite of +1 BAB. I suggest dropping it to every DM I see, but it is in the core rules.

Regardless of that, I suggest power attack and cleave. Rogues often get stuck with limited times periods in which to get their sneak attacks. Flat-footedness only lasts a limited period. Greater invisibility has a short duration. You want to squeeze in every attack you can get while they can be sneak attacks. Especially at low levels, cleave lets you get in a good number of extra attacks. Great cleave (down the road) is only useful in games where the DM tends to put massive numbers of low power enemies in your way. Even then, by the time you get into position to make an attack, the party wizard/sorcerer tends to eliminate those foes with a fireball.

Later, I'd suggest 2 weapon fighting and improved 2 weapon fighting, but not greater 2 weapon fighting. I took greater 2 weapon fighting with my barbarin 4/rogue 18 a while back .. and have yet to connect with an attack from my 3rd off hand weapon attack. My foes (within range) either die before I get to it or my attack bonus is too low to connect on anything but a great roll.

Expert tactician is a very strong feat. I encourage your DM not to allow it as it is too strong in my experience, but if it is allowed, it is hard to pass up due to the utility of it, especially at high levels.

Dodge is never a bad idea.

Improved Initiative is a good idea as well. Going first allows more sneak attacks - though II is less useful to rogues as they already often have an initiative advantage.

 

[Korak]

Later, I'd suggest 2 weapon fighting and improved 2 weapon fighting, but not greater 2 weapon fighting. I took greater 2 weapon fighting with my barbarin 4/rogue 18 a while back .. and have yet to connect with an attack from my 3rd off hand weapon attack. My foes (within range) either die before I get to it or my attack bonus is too low to connect on anything but a great roll.

It has been my experience in a few high level games, that the rogues just don't have enough hp to stand and fight, in some cases, even for one round. I don't like the TWF tree for rogues because it necessitates being in full attack range of the enemy/monster. That is not a good place for a d6 HD class to be. YMMV

 

[Shadeus]

Weapon Focus, Exotic Weapon Prof, and Weapon Finesse are out because of the BAB req.

If you are interested solely in combat, getting initiative is very important or your sneak attacks won't mean much. Feinting in combat is much tougher these days because most foes will have a better BAB than your Bluff skill. (And if they have any skill in Sense Motive, you might as well not bother.) To get Imp. Feint, you have to "waste" a feat on Combat Expertise...which a rogue with a low BAB wouldn't use all that often. You'll have a hard enough time hitting anything.

Two-weapon fighting and Imp Initiative are a good way to go. Dodge and Mobility would be wise choices for the future though.

Another option would be the ranged route (which someone suggested): PBS and either precise shot or rapid shot.

Multiclassing to fighter would be a wise move as well if you are just focusing on combat. It would go with either a ranged or two weapon specialist because they require so many feats. (Plus HP, which people have mentioned already.)

 

[LokiDR]

If you are going for a standard rogue, improved inititive. You need as much certainty as you can get for sneak attack in combat.

After that, pick a tree to follow: reach, TWF, or ranged. Reach is going to require a feat down the line for a good weapon, but you can start with the combat reflexes. TWF is the easiest to start on, you only really need tumble and the feat you can get right away: the most effect right away. Ranged is safer: you don't have to stand next to them or 5' away, and you get dex to hit right away. In the short term, though, you will get fewer SA than TWF. Start off the tree with point blank and pick up rapid as soon as you can.

Honestly, I think TWF is your best bet. You can always take out the bow and be good, but you can't always be decent with TWF. A future including weapon finess, combate expertise, improved feint, and any requirements for dualist would be a good idea. Combat effective and well placed for many different parties.

Good Luck

 

[trentonjoe]

Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
Two-Weapon Fighting

Like someone said, two weapon fighting for full attacks, two-handed goodness for single attacks, large weapon for disarm/sunder purposes, and a very easy to "conceal" weapon for a rogue. Bluff your way into the castle with your "walking stick"

There is also a cool feat in CW that grants an extra +2 AC bonus when using expertise with the staff.

 

[trentonjoe]

Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
Two-Weapon Fighting

Like someone said, two weapon fighting for full attacks, two-handed goodness for single attacks, large weapon for disarm/sunder purposes, and a very easy to "conceal" weapon for a rogue. Bluff your way into the castle with your "walking stick"

There is also a cool feat in CW that grants an extra +2 AC bonus when using expertise with the staff.

 

[Greyline]

Thanks for the great replies!

Huham... nice stats.

The stats are high, I know; our DM tends to throw a lot of nastiness at the players and then wait for them to come up with some way out of the predicament, so because of that, he's pretty lenient with us when we roll our attributes (like that makes up for killing us later). We use the 4d6, drop the lowest, assign as you want, roll up a new set as many times as you like "method."

I wanted to play a character like Arya from George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. Not female, or a kid, but a character who slowly descends into evil. I'm thinking straight rogue until picking up Assassin at level 8. So probably no fighter levels.

I can't take Weapon Focus or Weapon Finesse until level three because of the BAB requirement.

Improved inititive seems like a good choice but a high inititive is often wasted on the rogue. First impressions tell you that going first is great, but if you move in right away to get that flatfooted attack, you find yourself quickly surrounded by the enemy and waiting for your slow friends to rescue you. As a rogue, you want to wait until battle is engaged and pick and choose your attacks.

Good point, Kazuel. Though I like the idea of readying my bow to pick off the first orc that moves.

Sometimes it just feels like there are too many choices. Which I guess is a good thing, or else we'd all be playing the same character.

Greyline

 

[borc killer]

Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
Two-Weapon Fighting

Like someone said, two weapon fighting for full attacks, two-handed goodness for single attacks, large weapon for disarm/sunder purposes, and a very easy to "conceal" weapon for a rogue. Bluff your way into the castle with your "walking stick"

Sweet! That is my next character!

Borc Killer

 

[Scion]

magical aptitude and skill focus(use magic device)!! Eventually you will be able to use nearly every magical item in existance Right off the bat you use scrolls nearly as well as anyone else, sometimes better..lol.. anytime anyone ever says, 'bah, another weapon that requires orc blood' you say, 'its mine!'

whenever you are attacked by a human bane weapon you say, 'I roll my check to try to make it think that I am not human' lol (btw this usually doesnt fly with dm's, but it is such a cool visual!)

Someone needs healing? you are there with the handy dandy wand of curing.. or whatever other wand/dorje you can find.. (assuming magic/psionic transparency) time hop is the ultimate rogues friend..

and the list just keeps going

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Good point, Kazuel. Though I like the idea of readying my bow to pick off the first orc that moves.

More important than winning the the Initiative is not losing the Initiative in a difficult combat. A high offense low defense character like a Rogue or Wizard is much more likely to die if they suck up a big hit or are put in a bad tactical position on round 1.

I love the stylishness of the quarterstaff route but I am afraid I agree that standing toe-to-toe trading full attacks is a sure way to get a Rogue killed once you hit mid-high levels.