Bestow Curse

[Infiniti2000]

It's not intended to be beneficial in any way.

Just realize that this curse is far more detrimental to the person you kill than it is to you. An evil cleric would easily command all the undead he create from this, for free, at the same time rendering those creatures unaffected by raise dead. That part is the killer.

As you can tell, I think letting bestow curse affect others is just a really bad idea.

 

[frankthedm]

Maybe they should, but they should not suffer the same fate without a saving throw. You're making it into a multiple target effect, save for the original target, no save for all others and that is completely unacceptable IMO. I'd be okay with some sort of affect-others curse, like maybe a transfer (if someone helps you then they get a save or also be affected, perhaps with a +N bonus or something).

The saving throw is ostracizing the cursed person. The more I think about it though, the more it feels the effect should generate a general feeling of unease around the accursed ally, so it is not a stealth debuff.

 

[Sejs]

So what are you guys going to suggest for greater bestow curse? Or an epic curse?

(i.e. I think many of these are over the top for a relatively low level spell)

Greater Bestow Curse? Hmm. Well for starters, it seems they removed the 'there must be something that can be done to lift the curse other than just magicing it away' clause from the BoVD when they reprinted it in the Spell Compendium, which is a shame. I was quite fond of that clause.

Greater curses though, let's see. Well there's always some of the classics: Sleeping Beauity, the one on Princess Fiona from Shrek, etc. Cursing someone's Int down to 1 is pretty much dooming them to live out life like an animal. Random friend or family member falls victim to a disease, and if they shrug it off or get it cured, another loved one gets sick. The target's touch transmutes valuables into worthless dross. All of the target's loved ones and allies now despise them. The target cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, or activate spell trigger or spell completion items, becoming essentially magic-dead. So on and so forth. You cannot heal naturally and magical healing fails to work on you. Beneficial spells cast on you invert and instead apply a penalty equal to the bonus they would otherwise grant: bull's strength reduces your str by 4, and a vigor spell could well kill you.

Epic curses get wonky due to the no-upper-limit nature of epic magic but if I had to venture a guess? Oh, say, all the lands under your dominion plunged into eternal night so long as any member of your line holds the throne. Entire nation rendered sterile. The first born of an entire nation dying in one night. Anything endevor you undertake cursed to ruin (all dice results are treated as natural 1s, for starters). Anyone who comes to your aid will die under some circumstance shortly after helping you. You're reviled and despised by all who see you. Anywhere you stay for more than a few nights will be destroyed by some sort of natural disaster. Etc, etc.

 

[Sejs]

Just realize that this curse is far more detrimental to the person you kill than it is to you. An evil cleric would easily command all the undead he create from this, for free, at the same time rendering those creatures unaffected by raise dead. That part is the killer.

Yeah, the evil cleric commanding thing is an angle I hadn't considered, I'll admit. You could say the can't be controlled, but *shrug* Eh. As for rendering those affected unraiseable? Absolutely. Part of the curse. You're dooming their souls. Totally intentional.

As you can tell, I think letting bestow curse affect others is just a really bad idea.

There is precedent for it, however. BoVD, p28. Mean things, curses.

 

[Hypersmurf]

WarlockLord: "The slave curse: Subject must obey your every whim, or one of the above comes into effect."
Almost as good as dominate monster, a 9th-level spell!

Well, no.

When you cast Bestow Curse, you could have inflicted a -6 penalty. Instead, you've inflicted a potential -6 penalty. Any time he feels like disobeying you, he can just suck up the -6... which you could have whacked him with anyway right from the start.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

The movement hinder curse (as proposed so far with 5 foot max movement) is too strong against flying creatures with low maneuverability modes. Anything beyond half move is too strong for a curse.

Note: The Slow spell drops move by half AND decreases the number of actions. However, Slow does not have the option of variable types of effects like Bestow Curse, nor is it permanent.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The saving throw is ostracizing the cursed person. The more I think about it though, the more it feels the effect should generate a general feeling of unease around the accursed ally, so it is not a stealth debuff.

That would be a great curse IMO and well within the power of the spell.

Well, no.

When you cast Bestow Curse, you could have inflicted a -6 penalty. Instead, you've inflicted a potential -6 penalty. Any time he feels like disobeying you, he can just suck up the -6... which you could have whacked him with anyway right from the start.

Ah, I see. I misunderstood it. That's not so bad, then. It gives you an out, so is technically less powerful.

The movement hinder curse (as proposed so far with 5 foot max movement) is too strong against flying creatures with low maneuverability modes. Anything beyond half move is too strong for a curse.

Good point. Maybe half-speed is better? It's not a worse penalty than slow, doesn't have the action-limiting stuff, but is permanent. I'm not sure if it should affect all forms of movement or just land. Slow affects all, so. . .

 

[Endur]

The other variant to bestow curse is to tell the target how to lift the curse.

You are cursed with the <blah blah blah insert spell effect blah > until you perform the rite of the mysteries upon Mount Zogon. At which point the curse will be ended.

Almost like a Geas, in that you are telling the victim what he needs to do to remove the negative effect.

Of course, unlike a geas, you get a better save against bestow curse, and it does not have the detrimental effects of geas (instead the -4 or the -6 or whatever).

 

[Sejs]

Note: The Slow spell drops move by half AND decreases the number of actions. However, Slow does not have the option of variable types of effects like Bestow Curse, nor is it permanent.

Exhaustion also cuts speed in half. Between the two effects, I'd definitely say the action loss is the nastier side of Slow.

A curse that cuts your movement in half would seen very reasonable. Have it manifest as a lame leg or the like.

Actually, come to think of it, there's two more we might add to the list:

- The subject suffers severe insomnia, unable to get more than an hour or two of rest a night. In the course of a few days they'll be fatigued all the time and find recovering spells to be very difficult. The scant amount of sleep they are able to get is enough to keep them from progressing to exhaustion from lack of sleep, but any action that'd fatigue them will make them exhausted as normal.

- The subject suffers from lateral paralysis, similar to if they had a low-grade stroke. They lose the function of the arm and leg on one side of their body. The arm cannot maintain a grip or be moved in any significant way, the leg reduces their speed by (one half? one quarter?).

 

[Ozmar]

Greater Bestow Curse? Hmm. Well for starters, it seems they removed the 'there must be something that can be done to lift the curse other than just magicing it away' clause from the BoVD when they reprinted it in the Spell Compendium, which is a shame. I was quite fond of that clause.

Perhaps a modification is in order: If the caster selects some task or event that can remove the curse, then the curse cannot be removed by remove curse or similar spells? Makes it more powerful, sure, but also makes it more flavorful, and forces the characters to seek the story-based solution.

Ozmar the Curse Weaver