Better: Duskblade or Duskblade/Wizard/Ultimate Magus?

[EyeontheMountain]

I would see a Duskblade vs a Duskblade/Wizard/UM as totally different cats. A duskblade's eal strength is not in spells but in hit points, armor allowed, and BAB. All of which an UM does not grant. Perhaps DB/W/UM is strong for the first couple of levels, get Duskblade, then go wizard and then UM, but at 3rd level and on you are basically ditching the armor, unless you take lots of spells that allow casting in armor, like swift spells. And that is really sub-par for a wizard's potential abilities.

If you want a strong UM, I would suggest beguiler. INT synergy, nice skills and abilities at 1st level, and so on. Sorceror is good for a wider spell list, but with Beguiler covering two or three bases, the wizard has little problem covering the others.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Oh, and you miss out on a bunch of Quick Cast iterations. Free Quicken = yes please.

Really what I'm trying to say is that a hybridized Duskblade:

-Has a +10 BAB...
...Which is 1 point lower than a Bard's BAB.

-Has, including the 14 con and a +4 con item an average of 113 hp...
...Which is 2 hp less than a Bard would have at the same level, with the same mods.

-Can cast a truckload of low level spells, and a single 5th level spell per day...
...Which is one less 5th level spell per day than an equally leveled Bard can cast.

-Trades in 3 free Quickens per day and the ability to Arcane Channel with a full attack...
...For a single bonus metamagic feat and the ability to expand your spellbook slightly.

Here here, I intend to play the duskblade all the way.

I have started some threads with regards to duskblades and wraithstrike. I am in agreement that for a duskblade this would be horribly broken. I've considered other classes or PrC's and they don't offer the character any more than I'm getting with the class as is.

 

[Jubilee]

I'm currently building a goblin duskblade in an eberron campaign. At 7th level, I will be a 5th level duskblade/2nd level dragon devotee.

At 3rd Dragon Devotee, I get a level of sorcerer + I can cast sorcerer 0 and 1st level spells in light armor. One of the spells I will take is shield.

At 9th level, I will go into abjurant champion. I will put one level of progression into sorcerer and the other 4 into duskblade. I haven't yet decided what I will do with the martial casting ability - but I'm inclined to put it into sorcerer, so my shield will last something like 24 minutes..

After 5 levels of abjurant champion, I'll take 2 more levels of Dragon Devotee (netting me another level of sorcerer casting, and all 3 +2 stat boosts). After that I think I'm going back into duskblade (possibly spellsword), but I don't expect the campaign will go that high.

Mostly, I'll be a first-hit wonder. I've got a sword of spell storing, and I'll put a scorching ray in it. Then I'll quicken a true strike, power attack for full, and channel a shocking grasp through my sword - first round of combat I'll do something like 6d6 + 21 points of damage. Then I'll just use my massive +9 intimidate (-4 if they're bigger than me!) to look good for the rest of the combat.

I considered both the ultimate magus and the archivist/theurge builds myself, but ultimately, they didn't add enough to my "run up and smash" desires to outweigh the negatives - especially since I felt that the first 5 levels of duskblade abilities were all must-haves, and I didn't want to wait until 10th to go into mystic theurge, nor did I want to start play split 3/4 (since goblins have a preferred class of rogue, my multi-classing options are more limited). Wizard attack bonus was just brutal!

/ali

 

[takasi]

+5 BAB is *massive*. It is a whole attack and it will become two attacks next level, when Duskblade16 has 4 attacks and Dusk6/Wiz3/UM7 has 2 attacks because of a +6 disparity.

OK, but here's how I understand the Duskblade's arcane channeling (and correct me if I'm wrong, because we haven't gotten to this point yet).

When a duskblade is 13th level, he effects each target he can hit with the spell he cast. However, the channeling only applies to one attack, right? If he has shocking grasp, for example, and does a full attack to hit a creature three times, the shocking grasp damage isn't applied three times to the same target, is it?

If that's the case, personally I would trade that extra attack for access to a fifth level spell, or even to sacrifice a third level wizard spell to maximize the damage on that shocking grasp. Wraithstrike may be a broken example, but there are plenty of fifth level spells that would make it worth looking into the possibilities.

As for ASF, that's why I'm looking at the Archivist/Mystic Theurge. Channeling spells like poison, slay living and harm could be very potent, and the lower level buffs would offset the minor combat reductions.

 

[Sejs]

When a duskblade is 13th level, he effects each target he can hit with the spell he cast. However, the channeling only applies to one attack, right? If he has shocking grasp, for example, and does a full attack to hit a creature three times, the shocking grasp damage isn't applied three times to the same target, is it?

Aha, I see the problem.

No, a 13+ level Duskblade channeling a spell with a full attack enacts the spell fully each time they hit in that round. If the spell has a duration longer than 1 round or allows for plenty of touches (like, say, Chill Touch) the spell still expires at the end of the Duskblade's turn, instead of following the spell's normal behavior.

So, say I'm a 13th level Duskblade. I channel a CL 13 Vampiric Touch into my sword and unleash a full attack on some poor bastard. I'm lucky and all 3 attacks connect. My target, in addition to being hacked up 3 times, also subject to 3 seperate 6d6 Vampiric Touches.

It's mean. It's really mean. It's also the culmination of the Duskblade schtick.

 

[Victim]

No, it doesn't work like that. The full attack arcane channel affects each target you hit in melee that round. You can hit several enemies each with a Vampiric Touch, but hitting the same guy more than once isn't going generate more effective casts.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

No, it doesn't work like that. The full attack arcane channel affects each target you hit in melee that round. You can hit several enemies each with a Vampiric Touch, but hitting the same guy more than once isn't going generate more effective casts.

That is how I understand it also. Good and powerful, but being able to do such 3 touch attacks against one target would be too powerful.

 

[Sejs]

No, it doesn't work like that. The full attack arcane channel affects each target you hit in melee that round. You can hit several enemies each with a Vampiric Touch, but hitting the same guy more than once isn't going generate more effective casts.

The problem is one of ambiguity. It says every target, but doesn't specify one way or another if it has to be multiple targets, etc.

The way I've been reading it goes something like this:

I have three iterative attacks. I'm threatening, say, 3 mooks. I full attack, get my channel on, and start swinging.

First Attack-
- I choose my target: I target Guy A. Guy A, being the target of this attack, gets smacked and has my spell channeled into him.

Second Attack-
- I choose my target: I target Guy A again. Guy A, being the target of this attack, gets smacked and has my spell channeled into him.

Third Attack-
- Man, Guy A is really resilient. I choose him as my target for a third time. Guy A, being the target of this attack, gets smacked and has my spell channeled into him.

In every instance I choose my targets, it's just that the targets happen to be the same person. If I happen to drop Guy A with my second attack, I can choose to target Guy B or Guy C and if I hit then they get channeled into, because they're the target of that attack. It's along the same line of reasoning as spells that affect Person Touched, but you can still cast them on yourself because you're a Person that can be Touched if you so choose.

 

[3d6]

Here's what the FAQ says on the subject:

At 13th level, the duskblade’s arcane channeling class feature (Player’s Handbook II, 20) says “you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round.” If you hit the same creature more than once during the full attack action, does the spell affect it each time you hit?

No. The spell affects each target only once.

 

[Sejs]

Aha, clarification! It seems I have been running it wrong after all.

Thanks for the info.