Big Changes in ICv2's RPG Industry Charts, as Pathfinder Drops Off Before 2E's Release!

ICv2 has just released its Fall 2018 industry chart of the top selling hobby channel roleplaying games, and for the first time since the game launched, Pathfinder - no doubt affected by the impending release of Pathfinder 2E - is not in the top five!

1	Dungeons & Dragons	WotC
2	Legend of the Five Rings	FFG
3	Star Wars RPG	FFG
4	Starfinder	Paizo
5	Vampire	White Wolf

Pathfinder has been in the top 5 since it launched in 2009. Traditionally, it holds the #2 spot, just after D&D, although for three years from Spring 2011 to Summer 2014 it knocked D&D off its perch and claimed the top position. Since then, it's pretty much been D&D - Pathfinder - Star Wars, with the fourth and fifth positions battled over by the latest hotness.​

D&D dropped off the chart back in Spring 2014, just before D&D 5E launched. With Pathfinder 2 coming in August, this looks like the same effect.

In Pathfinder's absence, Fantasy Flight Games makes a strong showing with Legend of the Five Rings and Star Wars, and White Wolf's Vampire - despite the controversy, sneaks in at #5.

 

[TrippyHippy]

One other thing of note is that the most recent Star Wars movies had a torrid time - with an angrily divided audience for The Last Jedi and a box office flop with the Solo movie. Yet, FFG is still enjoying a third spot placing for their Star Wars games. Maybe the brand is still going strong behind the scenes?

 

[Morrus]

Unpopular opinion: Paizo should release a 5e version of Golarion and some of the associated APs. None of the people in the three gaming groups I am a part of are even remotely interested in PF2, and yes... several of us did play PF extensively for a couple of years. As others have said, Golarion is a great fantasy setting. Paizo was once a 3rd party publisher for D&D... why can't they return to that in some fashion?

I hope not. I love D&D and I love Pathfinder, and I love lots of other games. I would rather see a variety of games, not everything being D&D (like happened in the d20 System days).

 

[imagineGod]

Wow! That is a shocker: Paizo dropped the ball and let Modiphus sneak into the charts.

But most interestingly, Legend of the Five Rings 5e has powered through despite using funky dice that many a traditional L5R player swore would kill the franchise.

 

[Morrus]

Wow! That is a shocker: Paizo dropped the ball and let Modiphus sneak into the charts.

They didn't drop the ball. This is what happens before a new edition. They'll have expected it. And come later this year, they'll probably have two entries in the chart: Pathfinder 2 and Starfinder.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

It would be ok but i have seen this from back at the start of D&D add more and revise oh wait lets re release all the books again and make it annoying to convert so everyone would buy the new ones. D&D started this back with 2nd edition, then 3, 3.5 then crashed it with 4th now with 5th which is so watered down its pathetic from what it was. So the standard is change some core mechanics and re release it as a new updated version resale all to the same people and after a few years or less in some cases do it all over again. Sorry this boy bought into the 2nd and have vast amounts of it, did again for 3rd and stopped at 3.5, I got the basic books for 5th but that's where i draw the line. But go ahead and dish out the money for a product that will be up dated in a few more years, they live off your money. Really all you need is the basic alterations to convert the old stuff or a good imagination and a feel for the rules which is what i use, pathfinder is not my thing but good luckj to all who dumped all the money into the cool books and stuff that is now going to be altered and revised just like the people at D&D did to you.

Yes, RPG's get new editions - they've been getting new editions since the early 80's. If you were around for 2E this shouldn't surprise you but it almost sounds like you're angry about it. Pathfinder is getting it's first new edition in literally ten years. Champions went through 4 in its first ten years (in the 80's), Shadowrun went through three (in the 90's) so that is "solid" to say the least.

Also "they live off your money" - really? Is that bad somehow?

Am I the only one or are there more people that wish Paizo would completely scrap the current development team of PF2 and announce that they're starting over fresh, with a completely new year of playtest this fall (and, yes, postponing the launch of the finished game by one year)? A game that drops the idea of yet another brand new system? A game that actually learns from the successes and failures of 5E? A development team that understands that with 5E the market no longer want linear fighters quadratic wizards and other wild imbalances? A game that chooses to be compatible-ish, not with PF1 but with 5E. A game that doesn't delude itself into believing there's space for a large D&D-like player with a product wholly incompatible with everything? A game that instead taps into the 5E audience looking for a more complex "client-side" game (i.e. what the players percieve) without necessarily changing the server-side game (i.e. what the DM percieve)?

That's an interesting idea - the biggest 5E negative for me is the mechanical simplicity of the characters. Now you and I know they aren't going to do that but I wonder how many out there would be interested in that kind of direction. Maybe enough to support an "alternate players handbook" similar to what Monte Cook did with Arcana Unearthed/Arcana Evolved back in 3rd Edition?

One other thing of note is that the most recent Star Wars movies had a torrid time - with an agrily divided audience for The Last Jedi and a box office flop with the Solo movie. Yet, FFG is still enjoying a third spot placing for their Star Wars games. Maybe the brand is still going strong behind the scenes?

The first Star Wars RPG was born and popular when there were no movies/shows/books at all to support it (1987) so I'd say it's going to have a certain level of popularity regardless of the current state of the various media releases. FFG has put out a lot of support and almost all of it is Rebellion era stuff so even if someone dislikes the current trilogy it doesn;t have much impact on the curtrent game material.

Wow! That is a shocker: Paizo dropped the ball and let Modiphus sneak into the charts.

But most interestingly, Legend of the Five Rings 5e has powered through despite using funky dice that many a traditional L5R player swore would kill the franchise.

A lot of people wondered the same thing about Star Wars when they went in that direction with the dice but it seems to be doing alright. I'm wondering how long it will last with L5R though. Feudal Japan has had various RPGs active at different times over the years but it's always been a niche rather than a top 3 type game. It would be interesting to go back and see if there's a pattern with anything besides D&D, Pathfinder, and Star Wars as far as rise and fall regarding the top 5 here.

 

[imagineGod]

People complaining about figurative burning old books when a new edition is published, honestly, I have not seen any company demand you do that, or even demand you purchase the new editions.

Your friends can happily keep playing whatever edition you currently own already. And if you want, you can also play any other, including newer editions at your convenience.

 

[Pokelefi]

I hope not. I love D&D and I love Pathfinder, and I love lots of other games. I would rather see a variety of games, not everything being D&D (like happened in the d20 System days).

why not open up a setting to an other system of easier conversion it is an interesting setting and I want to play a 5e game in it (sine I most comfortable with this system) they don't have to go full on out to be third publisher again but a world source book with tips to adapt it why not? sounds great i would love ot have it like the Mitgard setting just to drag an drop the best parts into our games easier

 

[CubicsRube]

While I love 5e, i could get behind a pathfinder inspired 5e modified system. Increased ancestry and class feats, the new pf2e action point system. There's a f ew elements i like. However i don't like the original chassis nor the complexity for the sake of complexity paradigm that paizo adopts with the system focus

 

[TrippyHippy]

The first Star Wars RPG was born and popular when there were no movies/shows/books at all to support it (1987) so I'd say it's going to have a certain level of popularity regardless of the current state of the various media releases. FFG has put out a lot of support and almost all of it is Rebellion era stuff so even if someone dislikes the current trilogy it doesn;t have much impact on the curtrent game material.

All three of the original trilogy of movies (1977, 1980, 1983) had come out and were maintaining popularity through VHS and TV presentations. Star Wars was the most successful movie franchise ever, and had a massive stockpile of figures, toys, books and everything else booming in sales at the time the RPG came out in 1987.

Prior to 1987, people wanting to play a Star Wars RPGs tended to play Traveller. Notably, when Star Wars RPG came out in 1987, the sales of Traveller decreased substantially. There was also a reported correlation between stock market value of the Star Wars brand falling after the poorly recieved The Phantom Menace (1999) after about 2000 or so. Star Wars' value went up again after the success of A Force Awakens (2015) about the same time FFG was kicking off it's licence. I personally liked The Last Jedi, but there was certainly a backlash against it - which was possibly felt through the modest returns of Solo a few months later.

 

[Kor]

I'm still hoping that Paizo opens up a 5e conversion department. I'd buy their APs and settings in 5th ed without blinking. I'm also not holding my breath for this one.

I greatly agree with all these points.