Big Dark Sun hint
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Silverblade The Ench
First Post
cangrejoide,
Moving on 100 years would have been ok, and chnage would have been ok...BUT they literally slaughtered much of the Realms with the Spellplague and again screwed up magic users like they did in the TIme of Troubles...
Thus,
a) hand they wiped out a lto of things/charcaters folk cared about, causing "nerd rage deluxe"
b) Caused massive discontinuity between old and new. Much was wiped out completely.
This means the old and new can't really gel much.
c) it seemed cheap...oh for goodness sake, change of D&D editions should NOT change a setting, just for the mechanics of how we play, for goodness sake.
d) Perosnally I find the new Realms far too bland...it doesn't "grab" me at all :/
I think the Relams DID need a boot up the backside, I loved the 1st boxed set, but hated how it all got "ELminsterized": over detailed, over civilized....but what occured pleased comparatively few, I suspect.
An Idol Mind
yeah, like how they made Tyr a democracy...omg...lame!!!!
Great setting, needed treated with care
Kamikaze Midget,
In the Style of Minsc:
"Giant Space Hamsters FOR EVERYONE!!"
Moving on 100 years would have been ok, and chnage would have been ok...BUT they literally slaughtered much of the Realms with the Spellplague and again screwed up magic users like they did in the TIme of Troubles...
Thus,
a) hand they wiped out a lto of things/charcaters folk cared about, causing "nerd rage deluxe"
b) Caused massive discontinuity between old and new. Much was wiped out completely.
This means the old and new can't really gel much.
c) it seemed cheap...oh for goodness sake, change of D&D editions should NOT change a setting, just for the mechanics of how we play, for goodness sake.
d) Perosnally I find the new Realms far too bland...it doesn't "grab" me at all :/
I think the Relams DID need a boot up the backside, I loved the 1st boxed set, but hated how it all got "ELminsterized": over detailed, over civilized....but what occured pleased comparatively few, I suspect.
An Idol Mind
yeah, like how they made Tyr a democracy...omg...lame!!!!
Great setting, needed treated with care
Kamikaze Midget,
In the Style of Minsc:
"Giant Space Hamsters FOR EVERYONE!!"
The problem is, Dark Sun isn't points of light. Especially not how 4e does it.
4e is points of generic darkness surrounding points of really, really, really bright light. Adventurers start as being much better then everyone around them at everything, and go on to become super heroes. They fight villains in big, epic battles, and die gloriously in combat.
Dark Sun is points of grey surrounded by sand. Adventurers start as being kinda better then everyone around them at some things, and go on to become a little more better then everyone around them assuming they aren't killed by the sorcerer kings. They call one of the villains "Master" because it ensures they see tomorrow, and they die in the wasteland from thirst.
The other big problem is inclusiveness. 4e is very much "Everything is core. All races, all gods, all planes, all classes - they're in every setting." Dark Sun on the other hand is "Half your classes are gone, your races are all mutated and like to eat one another, the planes are there only to remind you how hilariously screwed life is, and the only gods are the sorcerer kings who are all very Evil." these two viewpoints don't, uh, match up well.
4e is points of generic darkness surrounding points of really, really, really bright light. Adventurers start as being much better then everyone around them at everything, and go on to become super heroes. They fight villains in big, epic battles, and die gloriously in combat.
Dark Sun is points of grey surrounded by sand. Adventurers start as being kinda better then everyone around them at some things, and go on to become a little more better then everyone around them assuming they aren't killed by the sorcerer kings. They call one of the villains "Master" because it ensures they see tomorrow, and they die in the wasteland from thirst.
The other big problem is inclusiveness. 4e is very much "Everything is core. All races, all gods, all planes, all classes - they're in every setting." Dark Sun on the other hand is "Half your classes are gone, your races are all mutated and like to eat one another, the planes are there only to remind you how hilariously screwed life is, and the only gods are the sorcerer kings who are all very Evil." these two viewpoints don't, uh, match up well.
Hm, sadly that sound like details WotC happily overlooks when 4Eifying a setting. It comes down to that you have a few cities and lots of monster filled desert between them and some big baddies you can use as boss monster. Sonds very 4Eish to me.
As for why Dragonborn, Warforged, Devas and planes etc. are in the setting, WotC simply dumps the responsibility of explaining that onto the DM. Fluff light, you know...
arscott
First Post
Cirno, I think I have to disagree. The Dark Sun PCs were always supposed to be incredible superheroes (rolling 5d4 for stats, free psionic talent, etc.) Heck, the very first supplement released for Dark Sun was an epic level handbook.
Really, the PCs were destined to overthrow sorcerer kings. The problem is that the NPCs got to it first.
(I do agree on the inclusiveness angle, though. If Dark Sun doesn't leave out certain core classes and races, it just won't be the same. Though I think the 4e cosmology, with a few minor tweaks, is perfect for the setting.)
Really, the PCs were destined to overthrow sorcerer kings. The problem is that the NPCs got to it first.
(I do agree on the inclusiveness angle, though. If Dark Sun doesn't leave out certain core classes and races, it just won't be the same. Though I think the 4e cosmology, with a few minor tweaks, is perfect for the setting.)
Hmm, I can see your point on the adventurers. We'll agree to disagree.
Another reason why 4e and Dark Sun don't mix - details. Dark Sun, details are VERY important. Your food and water, when you went out in the day, finding shelter - if you go into the wastelands and dunes, these are all very important things.
4e says "don't sweat the small stuff." And while that can be good on some campaigns, in somewhere like Dark Sun where your weapons are likely to break and dying of thirst is a real danger, you're SUPPOSED to sweat the small stuff.
I guess the big worry is that 4e's idea of fun is different from Dark Sun. Dark Sun LOVES the details, it loves the ignoble deaths, the grey-dark morality, the loyalty to someone who's supposed to be a bad guy (Templar class, anyone?). Just look at the whole arcane magic thing - the whole point was that not being a defiler meant you were SIGNIFICANTLY weaker. And hell, just being a wizard period meant you were likely to be mobbed and lynched in the town unless you hid it. Two of the races killed each other on sight.
That's not 4e's style. That's pretty much the opposite of 4e's style.
Another reason why 4e and Dark Sun don't mix - details. Dark Sun, details are VERY important. Your food and water, when you went out in the day, finding shelter - if you go into the wastelands and dunes, these are all very important things.
4e says "don't sweat the small stuff." And while that can be good on some campaigns, in somewhere like Dark Sun where your weapons are likely to break and dying of thirst is a real danger, you're SUPPOSED to sweat the small stuff.
I guess the big worry is that 4e's idea of fun is different from Dark Sun. Dark Sun LOVES the details, it loves the ignoble deaths, the grey-dark morality, the loyalty to someone who's supposed to be a bad guy (Templar class, anyone?). Just look at the whole arcane magic thing - the whole point was that not being a defiler meant you were SIGNIFICANTLY weaker. And hell, just being a wizard period meant you were likely to be mobbed and lynched in the town unless you hid it. Two of the races killed each other on sight.
That's not 4e's style. That's pretty much the opposite of 4e's style.
Silverblade The Ench
First Post
so, Dark Sun is indeed different, which is good! 
ok let's look at it:
4th ed does have rules for environment threats DMG Page 159 and under Endurance and Nature skill in PHB
anyway, it should be easy to have more rules for that due to Dark Sun's climatic and environemnt extremes, as it's a Skill Challenge.
Fail = lose 1/healing surge/per 8 hours, or special event.
Which is a much nicer mechanic than prior verisons of D&D, IMHO
(though 3rd had skill system that was a heck of a lot better mechanically than 1st/2nd, it got tad complex)
Deva's do make sense..spirits of the ancient people's re-born again anad again wanting revenge on the Sorceror kings!
The rest..as I've said elsewhere, I had an epiphany about Dark Sun: mutations!
It's a world where the environment, magic and the Dark Sun itself triggers mutations (and in the official history the Pristine Tower directly creates mutations in anything wandering by it)
So, pal wanted to play a goliath, and I thought, hm, why the hell not?
the character looks human, but isn't (though he has human Size so can't use larger weapons). back story is he was changed by encountering anncient spirits of priests burning with revenge...so now he's an Aveneger with race "goliath" though he looks Human.
Works for me!!!
ok let's look at it:
4th ed does have rules for environment threats DMG Page 159 and under Endurance and Nature skill in PHB
anyway, it should be easy to have more rules for that due to Dark Sun's climatic and environemnt extremes, as it's a Skill Challenge.
Fail = lose 1/healing surge/per 8 hours, or special event.
Which is a much nicer mechanic than prior verisons of D&D, IMHO
(though 3rd had skill system that was a heck of a lot better mechanically than 1st/2nd, it got tad complex)
Deva's do make sense..spirits of the ancient people's re-born again anad again wanting revenge on the Sorceror kings!
The rest..as I've said elsewhere, I had an epiphany about Dark Sun: mutations!
It's a world where the environment, magic and the Dark Sun itself triggers mutations (and in the official history the Pristine Tower directly creates mutations in anything wandering by it)
So, pal wanted to play a goliath, and I thought, hm, why the hell not?
the character looks human, but isn't (though he has human Size so can't use larger weapons). back story is he was changed by encountering anncient spirits of priests burning with revenge...so now he's an Aveneger with race "goliath" though he looks Human.
Works for me!!!
Last edited:
firesnakearies
Explorer
God, I want it to be Dark Sun so badly. It's the only published setting for D&D that I ever loved, and I've been waiting impatiently for YEARS now for an updated return to Athas to be professionally produced and supported.
It fits perfectly with PH3, the coming of psionics to 4th Edition.
It's such an awesome world. I'd be STOKED if Dark Sun was the next campaign setting. I'd buy three copies of each of the new Dark Sun books, just to show my support.
Someone upthread had a point, though, about it not being so much "points of light" . . . it's more like "points of slightly less dark". But I like that!
Go go Dark Sun!
(And oh god, PLEASE hire Brom again to do the art. Brom's old Dark Sun art is SO amazing...)
It fits perfectly with PH3, the coming of psionics to 4th Edition.
It's such an awesome world. I'd be STOKED if Dark Sun was the next campaign setting. I'd buy three copies of each of the new Dark Sun books, just to show my support.
Someone upthread had a point, though, about it not being so much "points of light" . . . it's more like "points of slightly less dark". But I like that!
Go go Dark Sun!
(And oh god, PLEASE hire Brom again to do the art. Brom's old Dark Sun art is SO amazing...)
Silverblade The Ench
First Post
firesnakearies,
If they can't get Brom, there are good artists out there!
Dark Sun Witch by ~namesjames on deviantART
Gandhi - Profile - GFXartist.com - Served over 20,000,000 artworks
And maybe me with a few years of practice
DARK SUN
If they can't get Brom, there are good artists out there!
Dark Sun Witch by ~namesjames on deviantART
Gandhi - Profile - GFXartist.com - Served over 20,000,000 artworks
And maybe me with a few years of practice
DARK SUN
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