Big problem with intelligence enhancing items?

[Scion]

The int boosting item should cost less now, since they get rid of the main reason it is around anyway.

Sortof like if you had a str boosting item but didnt get any extra attack/damage out of it.. or didnt gain extra carrying capacity.

Really, was it so hard before? If you wore it for the entire/majority of the level then you used the enhanced int. When you took the item off 'nothing happens', int changes are not retroactive. Just like if you take int damage you dont suddenly forget how to climb.

So, now the item is effectively only good for primary int casters and no one else. Definately should be a price decrease for the massive loss of use.

How much would you pay for a +6 str booster that doesnt grant you extra attack and damage?

 

[Plane Sailing]

So, now the item is effectively only good for primary int casters and no one else. Definately should be a price decrease for the massive loss of use.

How much would you pay for a +6 str booster that doesnt grant you extra attack and damage?

Well, by your argument that would be the equivalent of a headband of intellect that *didn't* give spell DC and bonus spells... since attack and damage is really best for primary melee classes, no?

I think it makes sense to have a single model for all stats. After all, you could argue that the CHA buff items have always been in that boat - helps the primary Cha casters and with some skills, but not much else. (paladins break this general rule, but duellists do for Int items and monks for Wis items. No big deal there).

Cheers

 

[Scion]

Well, by your argument that would be the equivalent of a headband of intellect that *didn't* give spell DC and bonus spells... since attack and damage is really best for primary melee classes, no?

No, even nonprimary melee classes use str for damage at some point. Whether something like a sling or a composite bow or whatever. But 'only' primary casters get the main benefit from the int item effectively.

The corollary is pretty good. Everyone wants skill points to some degree or another, and, albiet to a lesser degree sometimes, everyone wants to be able to deal damage with certain types of attacks.

If your campaign uses carrying capacity properly then that is another one, although this is generally not as important for various other reasons.

But still, the comparison holds to a good degree of usefulness, taking away the skill points is like taking away the attack and damage of a str boosting item.

I think it makes sense to have a single model for all stats. After all, you could argue that the CHA buff items have always been in that boat - helps the primary Cha casters and with some skills, but not much else.

Have you seen the skills used for cha lately? They are encounter enders in and of themselves.

But even then, the cha booster still works at full capacity. Whether or not that is farther down the totem pole is for another debate, it still works 'fully'.

The int item has its main use taken away. Sortof like the cha item no longer working on any skills anymore.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I've generally prohibited INT and WIS boosting items in my games, anyway. I'll add +DC items, or items that grant an additional spell slot instead. Too many can's of worms otherwise. Plus, I've always had a hard time with the concept of an item that made you wiser, but only so long as you wore it.

 

[Scion]

Another way of looking at it, sortof like a + to all saves vs a + to a single save.

The int item is only partially useful, so it is like a + to only a single save So it should cost less for the same bonus..lol

Of course, I would prefer to fix the problem simply by allowing skill points again ::shrugs::

 

[isoChron]

Well you still get the bonus for all INT skills as you get with CHA-boost items. Really no difference here.
Before there was a difference ! Now its on par with CHA-boosting items.

Both increase your skill total (ability modifier), and both add to DC and Spells per day. What's the problem ?

 

[Scion]

Well you still get the bonus for all INT skills as you get with CHA-boost items. Really no difference here.
Before there was a difference ! Now its on par with CHA-boosting items.

Both increase your skill total (ability modifier), and both add to DC and Spells per day. What's the problem ?

Again, just because int does something that doesnt parallel with the cha doesnt mean that the int has to be reduced in capacity to match up better.

If you want to debate how poorly cha is planned then that is for another thread.

The point here is: the int boosting item had something incredibly important taken from it, so it is no where near as useful as it should be. But, the cost was not changed. So, in effect, it is nearly worthless compared to what it used to be. Along with creating illogical issues when saying, 'my int is this, but only works for this, and is that for that over there, and...' It just provides a headache.

Just like if they took away the to hit and damage away from str, and still priced it the same.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Just like if they took away the to hit and damage away from str, and still priced it the same.

I still think you are overstating the point. It is more like they are taking carrying capacity away from a Str buff.

The primary point of a Str buff has always been to increase your melee capability, the primary point of an Int buff has always been to increase your spell capability - 90% of cases I've seen at any rate, and I'd guess that might be fairly representative.

Other stuff (skill bonuses, carrying capacity) were just gravy really. I've *never* heard of anyone before going for an Int buff item just for skill points (even in 3e many people were unclear whether that was appropriate or not anyway!)

Cheers

 

[Scion]

The primary point of a Str buff has always been to increase your melee capability, the primary point of an Int buff has always been to increase your spell capability - 90% of cases I've seen at any rate, and I'd guess that might be fairly representative.

So, its main use is what one class uses it for? Nah, I have had plenty of characters (both as pc's and npc's) who used it 'primarily' to get the extra skill points. without that use it is, literally, a worthless item.

In other words, it goes the opposite direction in my experience. People want it much more for getting the skill points than getting an extra spell slot.

Of course, everyone uses carrying capacity, but in many campaigns it is simply 'ignored'. Can you say the same for skill points?

 

[Thanee]

Then he loses the extra skill points until he puts the item back on.

It's kind of a pain. You have to keep track, on paper, of which skill points went where at each level.

It really has never been that way.

In 3.0 you gained additional skill points at the time of level up if you had worn an Int boosting item for most of the time during the last level.

Those skills learned were then permanent and not subject to change, if you took the item off.

Really quite easy and not much bookkeeping required. Only thing to figure was, when an item was worn long enough to count.

Higher Int isn't really equal to more knowledge, it's a higher learning speed.

Int boosting items really are mostly pointless now, except for wizards.

Bye
Thanee