Big problem with intelligence enhancing items?

[Thanee]

The primary point of a Str buff has always been to increase your melee capability, the primary point of an Int buff has always been to increase your spell capability - 90% of cases I've seen at any rate, and I'd guess that might be fairly representative.

While it's certainly true for Strength, in our games Int boosting items have surely been used at least to the same degree by non-wizards compared to wizards for the extra skill points alone (which is the primary effect of intelligence for everyone but wizards).

A similar comparison would be, if Wisdom wouldn't add to Will saves, for example.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

A similar comparison would be, if Wisdom wouldn't add to Will saves, for example.

Another good example, thanks thanee

 

[tarchon]

Well, they do boost Bardic Knowledge.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I tend to see Wis boosting items used by Monks, four types of divine caster and anyone who wants to boost their spot and listen, quite apart from their Will Save though.

Frankly, I come back to my original point (I think it was my original point, I get confused ) that an INT buff item is now functionally equivalent to a CHA buff item. It helps casters that have that as a primary attribute and it helps skills which are keyed off that attribute. If the INT item is worth less than, say, a STR item, then a CHA item should too.

Cheers

 

[Ottergame]

I've generally prohibited INT and WIS boosting items in my games, anyway. I'll add +DC items, or items that grant an additional spell slot instead. Too many can's of worms otherwise. Plus, I've always had a hard time with the concept of an item that made you wiser, but only so long as you wore it.

But you are ok with an item that magically makes you stronger? Oh wait, it's magic.

 

[Scion]

Frankly, I come back to my original point (I think it was my original point, I get confused ) that an INT buff item is now functionally equivalent to a CHA buff item. It helps casters that have that as a primary attribute and it helps skills which are keyed off that attribute. If the INT item is worth less than, say, a STR item, then a CHA item should too.

The point is not that one stat might be more useful than another, the point is that parts are cut out.

Just like someone could try to make a case that one of the three types of saves is much stronger than the others and therefore it is ok to only have a bonus to that save work against half of the things it normally works against.

Same problem again.

Argueing that one stat is overall weaker than another is pointless, because it is based too much on subjectiveness, and it is the point of another thread. It has no place here.

At this point a bonus to a stat, any stat, costs the same amount, no matter how useful it is for any one person. If you feel that cha is so much weaker anyway then it should probably cost less to begin with, since that isnt the case it is again useless as a point of reference.

But now there is a stat boost that only effects a fraction of what it should. When that happens there definately should be a cost change, just like if you had an item that boosted all three saves, but was then changed to only effect two of them, its usefullness is greatly reduced. Even worse in this case, because it creates very strange rule interactions where crazy exceptions have to be made. (especially since int change must still be addressed somewhere in the core either way, so might as well leave it as it was)

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The primary point of a Str buff has always been to increase your melee capability, the primary point of an Int buff has always been to increase your spell capability - 90% of cases I've seen at any rate, and I'd guess that might be fairly representative.

I concur.

Every class has its favorite stats. In theory, yes, the Int boost is less valuable. In practice, have you ever seen a non-wizard choose an Int boost over Str, Dex, Con, or Wis?

I suppose this might be an issue to a team of dedicated wizard hunters, but even they are likely to sell their Int items to save up money for other stat boosts.

 

[Scion]

Every class has its favorite stats. In theory, yes, the Int boost is less valuable. In practice, have you ever seen a non-wizard choose an Int boost over Str, Dex, Con, or Wis?

Yes, repeatidly, I have even done it myself on many occasions. In some ways it is the 'only' way to have characters with a lower starting int, and few skill points from class, get a couple of necissary class skills. +4 int booster to help buy that much needed cross class skill. Long term planning, long term goals. All that is gone now.

Well, it isnt gone in my games, but that doesnt mean that I cant complain about the change being stupid

Does anyone have any reasons why int shouldnt grant the skill boost? It cant be from worry about when to apply the change, because the system still has to worry about that from other sources anyway. So there is no difference there.

So really, what possible reason is there to disallow the skill points?

 

[Quasimodo]

Does anyone have any reasons why int shouldnt grant the skill boost?

It does grant a boost to int based skills in that the higher bonus your charcter has will now be applied to all skills using int as a base attribute....... just like cha items do. No better, no worse, which seems balanced to me.

Handing out extra skill points just because you slap on a headband for a while defeats one of the primary limitations of the low skill point classes, making them too good in comparison to the rogue or bard. Why bother with a rogue if you can get almost as many skills as a fighter or cleric with a handy int boosting item?

 

[Scion]

It does grant a boost to int based skills in that the higher bonus your charcter has will now be applied to all skills using int as a base attribute....... just like cha items do. No better, no worse, which seems balanced to me.

Handing out extra skill points just because you slap on a headband for a while defeats one of the primary limitations of the low skill point classes, making them too good in comparison to the rogue or bard. Why bother with a rogue if you can get almost as many skills as a fighter or cleric with a handy int boosting item?

you are joking right?

Again, whether the stats are balanced between themselves is irrelevant. Some people feel that this stat is the strongest by far and no otheres hold a candle, others feel that this other stat is the strongest by far, some think two are tied and the others are worthless. Whatever. It doesnt matter, and it has no bearing here.

Why play a barbarian? All you have to do is slap on a nice little str boosting item and you are set.

Why bother being an elf? all you need to do is slap a dex boosting item on instead.

Why bother playing a class with high hp? you can just slap a con boosting item on instead.

Remember, the rogue has a lot of other beanies as well, and, if they want more skill points they could do the same thing. Plus, the rogues strength is more in the 'breadth' of his skill selection than how many he gets, but he also does get a lot. Many more than most fighter types can hope to come close to even with dumping a bunch of money into it.

So, is there a reason that isnt based on 'But abilities have different uses!' or 'but it might hurt this others characters feelings that the fighter has a chance to buy spot cross classed'?