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Birthright. Tell Me About It. Please.
- Thread starter drscott46
- Start date
Davelozzi said:
Not bad considering the total of BR novels were:
Novels
TSR #3112. The Iron Throne
TSR #3113. Greatheart
TSR #3114. The Hag’s Contract
TSR #3115. The Spider’s Test
TSR #3116. The Falcon and the Wolf (unpublished) {available as a free download}
TSR #3133. War (hardcover)
And Shadow Stone (by Rich Baker) that was a FR novel that was a thinly disguised tale of Highe Mag Aelies. It was a very good novel, by the way.
Thomas Percy
First Post
I'm curious why some company doesn't publish it independently (like Ravenloft or Dragonlance)? Is it question of money only?irdeggman said:
Thomas Percy said:
They couldn't afford the license.
There were several that were interested in picking it up while we were working on the BRCS-playtest but they couldn't afford the fee.
IMO WotC realized what they had done when they let Ravenloft go relatively cheaply and then they started cracking down afterwards.
I believe that philosophy can be reflected in how they did the "limited" license for Gamma world (IIRC it was only 6 books).
"Money makes the world go around, the world go around, the world go around. . ."
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
irdeggman said:
Hrm.
I don't think I ever read The Falcon and the Wolf or Shadow Stone; I'll have to remedy that. I remember not being terribly impressed by Greatheart, and The Hag's Contract was criminally bad.
War and The Spider's Test were okay, though.
Brad
Cam Banks
Adventurer
I ran a BR game in 3.0 and converted to 3.5 near the end; it was heavily inspired by Elizabeth Willey's "A Well-Favored Man," "A Sorcerer & a Gentleman" and "Price of Blood & Honour" trilogy about Argylle and the very Amberite-like families of nobles who governed it. I created my own map, used my own NPCs and places, all stolen from Willey's books, but used many of the BR concepts such as bloodlines, awnsheighlien, elves, dwarves, Regency Points (which I also used as a kind of action points), etc.
It was truly awesome and a lot of fun. Retired it almost at the point where the current gods (including Cuireacen, et al) were about to have their big showdown with the restored Azrai. The idea was for the PCs to become the new gods, but I never got that far.
Cheers,
Cam
It was truly awesome and a lot of fun. Retired it almost at the point where the current gods (including Cuireacen, et al) were about to have their big showdown with the restored Azrai. The idea was for the PCs to become the new gods, but I never got that far.
Cheers,
Cam
irdeggman said:
I wonder if it's fallen between the cracks just because there's no clear angle as to why it would be picked up. Dragonlance has a built-in following just because of its extensive history and novel line; Ravenloft has the iconic villain in Strahd and the horror-movie thing behind it; Planescape is a longtime favorite of many of the industry folk (and has a slow-burning classic PC game, courtesy of Bioware); Spelljammer's silliness and sheer space-cowboy implausibility has made it a cult thing.
The two settings that didn't manage to hook on to a clear niche, Dark Sun and Birthright, are the two major TSR legacy settings that didn't or don't have a d20 publisher. (I thought I saw some d20 Spelljammer stuff, but I could be off here.) Birthright's supporting products, the novels and Sierra PC game, weren't compelling enough to build enough long-term fans that lasted through the TSR implosion/buyout.
I have a feeling I have a couple of the facts wrong, but I thought I'd throw this out there. I'm also ignorant as to whether or not any d20/indie publishers have tried settings and/or systems that borrow or draw influence from the domain/royal/wargame hybrid concept of Birthright anytime since the advent of 3e/3.5.
drscott46 said:
IMO it wasn't between the cracks since it didn't have enough time to gel at all really. TSR was in such turmoil at the time that they really didn't support it the way they could have.
Actually the fans at athas.org and the darksun boards at the WotC site have been very vocal over the years.
I am not sure why WotC didn't go with Dark Sun when the new psionics came out. It was actually fairly strongly supported novel wise (and PC game wise too).
IMO there is the IP issue.
Mongoose was going to publish a rule set called Bloodlines that by the early adds was extremely close to Birthright. They ended up incorporating the domain and mass combat stuff into their Conan line. I have a feeling they ran across potential IP infractions with the way they were originally going with the Bloodlines stuff (it was all about dead gods and touches of divinity and the like - far too similar to Birthright).
Eden's Fields of Blood has definitely drawn from BR. It has a decent domain and mass combat system.
Cry Havoc by Skip Williams has a strong mass combat system.
Ranger REG
Explorer
Probably because there is not enough fanbase to financially support the setting. If you want, blame me. I wasn't into it as one of many settings as I wasn't into Pontiac as one of many car brands.irdeggman said:
Yeah, it may not be BR but it was close enough and usable in any d20 fantasy setting. Too bad Eden stopped making more of them (would have liked if it Field of Bloods can be used in modern and futuristic settings).irdeggman said:
Ranger REG said:
And yet from what I have heard there is too much fan base for them to "sell it".
From what I've heard over the years, Dark Sun is one property that WotC will not sell because of the fan base.
Large enough to maintain interest, not quite large enough to support production. It has always had that problem. IIRC it was a setting that kept get resurrected. The "revised" setting was issued just before Birthright was, IIRC. In fact the revised psionics were the rules that were used in the Player's Option Series for psionics.
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