Solmyr original Birthright 3e version has also been uploaded recently to Birthright.net. There are also conversions and alternative rules from many other people in the wiki, downloads and in some forum threads, which are always very interesting to read.
Birthright??
- Thread starter Ampolitor
- Start date
Solmyr original Birthright 3e version has also been uploaded recently to Birthright.net. There are also conversions and alternative rules from many other people in the wiki, downloads and in some forum threads, which are always very interesting to read.
I've never had the slightest interest in Birthright. The premise, to me, sounds utterly boring. The setting seemed to focus on the things my characters would do after I've turned them into an npc, i.e. everything I don't enjoy acting out myself.
It's not that I dislike politics in and of themselves, but a game focusing on politics? I'll pass.
Note, that one of my favorite rpgs is Ars Magica. In Ars Magica you can play nobles and regents, too. You can have adventures focused on politics at a variety of different levels but you don't have to. Imho, the game caters to a wider choice of play styles.
For me the important part is the focus: Ars Magica is focused on magic. That's interesting and fun. It's also based on real-world history, which is a big plus, imho, since you get the richest background you could ever wish for in a setting.
Why settle for anything less (i.e. something like Birthright)?
deganawida
Legend
Birthright was an incredible world with fantastic design, if one does not account for the rules. Please allow me to clarify.
1. Birthright was an incredible world. The world of Birthright was based not so much upon Tolkien and other high fantasy, but upon British myth and faerie tales. The elves were somewhat elemental representations of the ancient wilderness of Cerilia, godless in both the game's reality and in the sense that they could not be civilized by human standards. Dwarves were even more elemental, being partially formed of stone, and instead of the berserker dwarves that were so common in fantasy at the time, they were instead a very ordered, methodical race. The goblins were the monsters of the deep, dark forests, who would kill you as cruelly as possible. The awnsheghlien were the singular monsters of myth, far more powerful than what a human could achieve. Dragons were tied to the life of Cerilia, and were inscrutably beings of tremendous power, beauty, and arrogance who were not to be trifled with. This focus on the myths and faerie tales gave the world itself a deeper mythic resonance than one receives from any other D&D campaign world, the majority of which were based upon high fantasy and swords and sorcery literature which were themselves based in part on ancient myth.
2. Birthright had fantastic design. Realm magic provided powerful spells that required magical energy that ran through the land in streams. There was a workable method of having players play as rulers from the very beginning of the campaign, and the game changed because of that. Races were even more restricted than normal AD&D, in an effort to preserve the cultures introduced within the setting. In fact, for the first time, humans were limited. Without having a bloodline, humans could not be mages, and were instead limited to the flavorful but less powerful magician class. Only Anuireans and Khinasi (humans from Anuire and Khinasi) could be paladins.
3. Birthright was marred by the rules. Seriously, the 2nd edition rules had to be bent left and right to accomodate for the various systems introduced in Birthright. Bloodlines weren't balanced. Domain turns took 3 months each, meaning that a war could take your regent's entire youth. The card battles weren't as streamlined as they should have been. Thanks to the need to have lots of realms for players to pick from, there's not as much negative space; too much of the world is settled and marginally civilized. All these culminated in a brilliant campaign setting that really illustrated that 2e had grown long in the tooth.
All this said, I do believe that 4e is perfect for Birthright, but I believe that it would need to be reworked. I've been working on some ideas myself, and the very first change that I believe would have to be made would be to make every PC blooded. This wouldn't mean that every PC would be a regent (that would be reserved for paragon tier), but being blooded would solve the sticky problems of the default 4e player character's power level and the access to high and realm magic. I have more ideas, but I've probably bored you enough
1. Birthright was an incredible world. The world of Birthright was based not so much upon Tolkien and other high fantasy, but upon British myth and faerie tales. The elves were somewhat elemental representations of the ancient wilderness of Cerilia, godless in both the game's reality and in the sense that they could not be civilized by human standards. Dwarves were even more elemental, being partially formed of stone, and instead of the berserker dwarves that were so common in fantasy at the time, they were instead a very ordered, methodical race. The goblins were the monsters of the deep, dark forests, who would kill you as cruelly as possible. The awnsheghlien were the singular monsters of myth, far more powerful than what a human could achieve. Dragons were tied to the life of Cerilia, and were inscrutably beings of tremendous power, beauty, and arrogance who were not to be trifled with. This focus on the myths and faerie tales gave the world itself a deeper mythic resonance than one receives from any other D&D campaign world, the majority of which were based upon high fantasy and swords and sorcery literature which were themselves based in part on ancient myth.
2. Birthright had fantastic design. Realm magic provided powerful spells that required magical energy that ran through the land in streams. There was a workable method of having players play as rulers from the very beginning of the campaign, and the game changed because of that. Races were even more restricted than normal AD&D, in an effort to preserve the cultures introduced within the setting. In fact, for the first time, humans were limited. Without having a bloodline, humans could not be mages, and were instead limited to the flavorful but less powerful magician class. Only Anuireans and Khinasi (humans from Anuire and Khinasi) could be paladins.
3. Birthright was marred by the rules. Seriously, the 2nd edition rules had to be bent left and right to accomodate for the various systems introduced in Birthright. Bloodlines weren't balanced. Domain turns took 3 months each, meaning that a war could take your regent's entire youth. The card battles weren't as streamlined as they should have been. Thanks to the need to have lots of realms for players to pick from, there's not as much negative space; too much of the world is settled and marginally civilized. All these culminated in a brilliant campaign setting that really illustrated that 2e had grown long in the tooth.
All this said, I do believe that 4e is perfect for Birthright, but I believe that it would need to be reworked. I've been working on some ideas myself, and the very first change that I believe would have to be made would be to make every PC blooded. This wouldn't mean that every PC would be a regent (that would be reserved for paragon tier), but being blooded would solve the sticky problems of the default 4e player character's power level and the access to high and realm magic. I have more ideas, but I've probably bored you enough
gamerprinter
Mapper/Publisher
Already mentioned our group having played Birthright long ago, but I've always been inspired by the setting moreso than wonky regent and domain rules. One of the settings I'm developing for publication (for Pathfinder) involves an Iron Age Celtic setting (preRoman Celts) and though not deliberately I think Birthright has been strongly influencing my setting. Especially in that my elves are creatures of the Fey Realms, and I call them 'Sidhe'. And have already determined that like their BR counterparts do not worship gods and are completely dependant on arcane fey sources for their powers.
Since I now recognize the BR influence, I might take it the next step include the awnsheigh concepts of certainly regional monsters as being the original 'lords' of given monster types, like the 'gorgon' and the giant spider - though that's it for BR influence.
Rather the "gorgon" however, I will be using monsters more specifically chosen for the setting like one of the Pathfinder Bestiary 'Linnorn' a very Celtic, nonflying dragon type, and other 'Celtic' flavored beasties.
Also I think ancient Greek myth may influence the setting as well.
Right now the big badee of the setting is the Caillech Bheur or Winter Hag, who leads the ogres and giants over the Celts of the setting. I'd like to create several less badee's as regional rulers in the style of Birthright.
While I intend to publish this BR influenced setting, this is definitely not a Birthright concept wholey, as I won't include the domain management aspect as it really doesn't fit a Celtic campaign.
GP
Since I now recognize the BR influence, I might take it the next step include the awnsheigh concepts of certainly regional monsters as being the original 'lords' of given monster types, like the 'gorgon' and the giant spider - though that's it for BR influence.
Rather the "gorgon" however, I will be using monsters more specifically chosen for the setting like one of the Pathfinder Bestiary 'Linnorn' a very Celtic, nonflying dragon type, and other 'Celtic' flavored beasties.
Also I think ancient Greek myth may influence the setting as well.
Right now the big badee of the setting is the Caillech Bheur or Winter Hag, who leads the ogres and giants over the Celts of the setting. I'd like to create several less badee's as regional rulers in the style of Birthright.
While I intend to publish this BR influenced setting, this is definitely not a Birthright concept wholey, as I won't include the domain management aspect as it really doesn't fit a Celtic campaign.
GP
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Orius
Unrepentant DM Supremacist
I took a look at the domain rules over at Birthright.net, and I think I'll adapt quite a number of those ideas for a more generic setting. The whole bit with domains and realms along with a traditional D&D campaign strongly appeals to me.
I probably will adapt the rules on magical sources. Birthright is a pretty low-magic world with magic being connected to nature, and civilization tends to deplete magic to some degree. This isn't really how a typical D&D setting is, and nature and magic being connected doesn't really fit the flavor of the vanilla D&D wizard. Sources feel far more connected to druids than the traditional D&D wizard, so I probably would change sources to some sort of nautral power important to druids/fey and the like, or have it connected to Primal powers if I go 4e. The more traditional D&D arcane magic I'd probably work similar to guilds and temples.
I probably will adapt the rules on magical sources. Birthright is a pretty low-magic world with magic being connected to nature, and civilization tends to deplete magic to some degree. This isn't really how a typical D&D setting is, and nature and magic being connected doesn't really fit the flavor of the vanilla D&D wizard. Sources feel far more connected to druids than the traditional D&D wizard, so I probably would change sources to some sort of nautral power important to druids/fey and the like, or have it connected to Primal powers if I go 4e. The more traditional D&D arcane magic I'd probably work similar to guilds and temples.
Glyfair
Explorer
I am not going to comment about specifics for the system (as I said, I never got around to playing in Birthright), but I would consider this a plus. I like a campaign where the characters begin as youths and don't become powerful until they are quite old.
Of course, I admire the Pendragon system where the ideal campaign takes place over several generations of a family. When the campaign ends you are running your original character's grandson or great-grandson (if you are lucky and your family thrived).
Vyvyan Basterd
Adventurer
The main reason I believe the setting failed is that it was too niche.
Kingmaker works better because it is a single campaign and can work as a change of pace. The niche it creates lasts for one arc. Birthright asks you to buy into the niche for an entire setting, which will appeal to less people. Even though you could play a single campaign using Birthright, it's a lot to ask someone to buy into compared to a single AP like Kingmaker.
Kingmaker works better because it is a single campaign and can work as a change of pace. The niche it creates lasts for one arc. Birthright asks you to buy into the niche for an entire setting, which will appeal to less people. Even though you could play a single campaign using Birthright, it's a lot to ask someone to buy into compared to a single AP like Kingmaker.
deganawida
Legend
It's fun in a human-dominated setting, but not so much fun when the other players are playing an immortal elf, a long-lived dwarf, and a halfling, and you're the one stuck with the old age penalties while they go off to do something else.
Birthright had a great world and feel to it, but there was only 1 person in my group that could of kept up with the regent/kingdom management portion, so we ended up playing it as if it was another different world. I owned almost all of the products, I would definitely like to see it again in some sort of modified official form.
deganawida
Legend
This is where I firmly believe that 4e's "tiers of play" could really be illustrated. One could play Birthright as just another adventuring world for the Heroic tier, move into basic domain rulership in the Paragon tier, and deal with carving up empires and massive wars in the Epic tier. Each tier would then be differentiated (something which 4e has not yet accomplished) by changes in playstyle and scope naturally kneaded into the campaign structure. Name levels writ large, so to speak. This approach would have the advantage of giving players and DMs 3 different ways to run Birthright: as an adventurer, as a king errant, or as an Alexander wannabe. This is the kind of thing that I think WotC should really examine and evaluate.
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