Bits and Pieces of Worlds & Monsters

[Kid Charlemagne]

p13.. You can't use magic to know know whether or not a ceature is evil or good: You must judge by its actions

:happy dance:

 

[GreatLemur]

You can't use magic to know whether or not a creature is evil or good.

Oh, man, it's about freaking time.

"Shadow will be a power source in the 4th edition D&D game. Shadow power isn't evil but it isn't friendly either. It aids in stealth, conjures illusions, inspires dread, devastates enemies and manipulates necrotic energy. If all that is not enough, a character who works with shadow might even have some influence over death itself"

(p46 boxed text)

nb earlier on that same page it says "its necrotic energy animates the undead"

Hell, that does sound pretty cool. That actually sounds good enough that I might not screw with it much. I'm digging the whole emphasis on "power sources" more and more...

Primeval illithid empire? So they aren't somehow self-creating time-travelers from the End of Time any more? I suppose thats good...

Oh, hell yes it's good. Primeval empires are so freaking Lovecraft, and so freaking right for illithids. Time travel is dumb.

Example: a 'magic train' that's actually an oversized carriage borne litter-like by a group of golems--this would be adapting existing D&Disms to the desired end (bulk movement!) rather than essentialy inventing an entirely new magical 'technology'.

But why build something humanoid to do such a specialized job? The first generation of magical mass transport might be golem-borne palanquins, but I think it wouldn't take long before somebody realized that messing about with arms and legs is a lot less efficient than just makings some magically-driven wheels.

Of course, legs are great when you're not travelling the same pre-prepared route all the time, so there'd logically still be a place for that kind of thing in private transport. Which means that Baba Yaga's hut has a place in Eberron, I guess. Cool.

 

[Intrope]

But why build something humanoid to do such a specialized job? The first generation of magical mass transport might be golem-borne palanquins, but I think it wouldn't take long before somebody realized that messing about with arms and legs is a lot less efficient than just makings some magically-driven wheels.

Of course, legs are great when you're not travelling the same pre-prepared route all the time, so there'd logically still be a place for that kind of thing in private transport. Which means that Baba Yaga's hut has a place in Eberron, I guess. Cool.

Actually, there are two assumptions here: that wheels are more effecient in a fantasy universe (not necessarily so--the scaling rules for instance clearly don't follow real-world rules; neither giants or big flyers are physically possible. The relative efficiency of different simple machines is likely different, too) and that you can animate arbitrary forms. Given that nearly everything that gets animated is essentially humanoid (there are counter examples, of course; Animated Object and Juggernauts for instance) a reasonable extrapolation is that the form animated has to be in the image of it's maker (or in the apparently universal humanoid shape). In both cases, a golem palanquin would beat out the wheeled vehicle.

At a deeper level, I prefer fantasy worlds to have a fantasy 'physics' rather than a Vancian/Gygaxian magic-on-real-physics scheme. Not that the worlds shouldn't be consistent--just that the rules aren't the rules of physics! The four elements are what things are really made of, not a Aristolean classification scheme; gunpowder is meaningless because chemistry just doesn't happen (Alchemy happens, if you have the mystical talent and training for it!)

Having said that, I don't *hate* Eberron's approach; I'd just prefer that it be an alternate scheme and the default scheme be more magical logic rather than real-world counterparts.

 

[GreatLemur]

Actually, there are two assumptions here: that wheels are more effecient in a fantasy universe (not necessarily so--the scaling rules for instance clearly don't follow real-world rules; neither giants or big flyers are physically possible. The relative efficiency of different simple machines is likely different, too) and that you can animate arbitrary forms. Given that nearly everything that gets animated is essentially humanoid (there are counter examples, of course; Animated Object and Juggernauts for instance) a reasonable extrapolation is that the form animated has to be in the image of it's maker (or in the apparently universal humanoid shape). In both cases, a golem palanquin would beat out the wheeled vehicle.

At a deeper level, I prefer fantasy worlds to have a fantasy 'physics' rather than a Vancian/Gygaxian magic-on-real-physics scheme. Not that the worlds shouldn't be consistent--just that the rules aren't the rules of physics! The four elements are what things are really made of, not a Aristolean classification scheme; gunpowder is meaningless because chemistry just doesn't happen (Alchemy happens, if you have the mystical talent and training for it!)

Ah, well that highlights a fundamental difference in our thinking: I prefer magic to work like science, and for a fantasy setting's physics to be identical to ours except where obvious exceptions are necessary (and, of course, are probably less exceptions than place where magic is doing a work-around). Anything else just seems . . . fluffy and nonsensical, to me.

 

[kennew142]

I'm going to have to disagree with some of the posters here. I like Eberron's lightning rail and airships. They add a distinctive flavor to the world. I'm not advocating making them core, but I like them in the context of Eberron.

Ah, well that highlights a fundamental difference in our thinking: I prefer magic to work like science, and for a fantasy setting's physics to be identical to ours except where obvious exceptions are necessary (and, of course, are probably less exceptions than place where magic is doing a work-around). Anything else just seems . . . fluffy and nonsensical, to me.

This pretty much describes my take on it as well. Everyone has a different threshold for their suspension of disbelief. I prefer magic trumping the laws of physics to be the exception, rather than the rule. I am not fond of settings where chemistry doesn't work (because of magic!), for example.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

I tend to agree there... I prefer Magic as a sort of fifth law of nature, in a way.

 

[Jack99]

p13.. You can't use magic to know know whether or not a ceature is evil or good: You must judge by its actions

FTW - one less thing I have to houserule.

 

[Brian888]

Worlds and Monsters also notes that despite the fact that the Shadar-Kai look like exiles from "Hellraiser," they're not automatically an evil race like the Drow. Of course, like the Raven Queen, this doesn't mean that they're automatically good, either.

 

[Jim DelRosso]

"Shadow will be a power source in the 4th edition D&D game. Shadow power isn't evil but it isn't friendly either. It aids in stealth, conjures illusions, inspires dread, devastates enemies and manipulates necrotic energy. If all that is not enough, a character who works with shadow might even have some influence over death itself"

(p46 boxed text)

nb earlier on that same page it says "its necrotic energy animates the undead"

Cheers

I'm betting on Assassins as shadow strikers, and Necromancers as shadow controllers. But maybe they'll fit Illusionists in there somewhere, too?

All in all, this is pretty cool stuff.

 

[infax]

I'm betting on Assassins as shadow strikers, and Necromancers as shadow controllers. But maybe they'll fit Illusionists in there somewhere, too?

All in all, this is pretty cool stuff.

What about:
- Assassin : Shadow Striker
- Illusionist: Shadow Controller
- Necromancer: Shadow Leader (imagining they can use necrotic power to reenergize the undead, boost their efficiency and other similar tasks)