Black Widow teaser

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
These guys are required to be in peak condition all the time to fit into their tight suits/gear and perform - it is nice to see that they struggle (and lose sometimes) with weight. It humanizes them.
Right but they can have that without the joke in the trailer or indeed in the movie. Hell they could have one of them look at the guy who gained weight and say "Yeah, we're all getting older"
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
Probably not. Because otherwise, the sacrifice to get the stone isn't really an issue. You want the stone? Put your friend in a box for a while, come back and get them out when you are done. No big deal.
But who, besides the Avengers would ever even consider putting it back. These are WMDs on a scale otherwise unknown.

Anyone one who gets the soul stone likely wants absolute power for themselves, or is enacting a grand design like Thanos himself and still wouldn't want to put it back.

Heck if the only reason the Avengers themselves are considering putting it back is to try to preserve their (already screwed up) timeline. If they weren't trying to do that they'd leave it in Wakanda or something.

I think we have here the only time someone has tried to return the Stone to Vormir. Which piques my curiosity about it.
 

Kaodi

Adventurer
I am definitely in the boat where I need to wind down on seeing MCU films in theatre. There will be exceptions though - Spider-Man as a rule, and I think I may see this one, partly because studios need to see female led films succeed, partly to see Black Widow finally get her due.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
But who, besides the Avengers would ever even consider putting it back. These are WMDs on a scale otherwise unknown.
Once it became known that the Soulstone was available for cheap? Pretty much anyone. Great power, for a time, at very small cost? Huzzah!

Anyone one who gets the soul stone likely wants absolute power for themselves, or is enacting a grand design like Thanos himself and still wouldn't want to put it back.
Again, yes, if the cost is high, the only ones who will want it are those who wouldn't want to put it back. But... once the price goes down? I lose the love of my life. My best friend goes with me, goes in a box for a bit, I get my love back, then retrieve my friend. It'd be a bloody revolving door!

Heck if the only reason the Avengers themselves are considering putting it back is to try to preserve their (already screwed up) timeline. If they weren't trying to do that they'd leave it in Wakanda or something.
Wakanda has already shown an inability to protect a single stone, much less the full set.

And, no, they don't have to put them back to preserve their own timeline - that's not how this works. They are putting them back because to do otherwise creates alternate timelines that are screwed without them, and that's pretty unethical.

I think we have here the only time someone has tried to return the Stone to Vormir.
I think that unlikely. I mean, there appears to be a system here. The Space Stone sent the Red Skull to Vormir. Why?

You don't need a complicated system to guard a thing that nobody is ever expected to access.
 
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BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
Once it became known that the Soulstone was available for cheap? Pretty much anyone. Great power, for a time, at very small cost? Huzzah!
Is there some kind of "extra! extra! read all about it" soul stone newspaper out there? The amount of people who know about the stones is few. The amount of people who know the soul stones location is even fewer. The amount of people who know about it's cost? even fewer. That we know of it's Thanos, Nebula speculating about the loss of her sister, and Clint bringing the news back to the Avengers.

Again, yes, if the cost is high, the only ones who will want it are those who wouldn't want to put it back. But... once the price goes down? I lose the love of my life. My best friend goes with me, goes in a box for a bit, I get my love back, then retrieve my friend. It'd be a bloody revolving door!
Again, who is going to know about this? Does the ghost of the Red Skull gossip in cheap bars?

Wakanda has already shown an inability to protect a single stone, much less the full set.
Against a being wielding all the other stones yes, but now the Avengers have all those stones in their possession. Still it's a valid point that Cap and T'Challa are certain to consider and probably agree with you on. If Tony were alive however...

And, no, they don't have to put them back to preserve their own timeline - that's not how this works. They are putting them back because to do otherwise creates alternate timelines that are screwed without them, and that's pretty unethical.
A great point. The Ancient one explained that, and I wasn't thinking about it.

I think that unlikely.
You are right it's probably not a singleton, but given the amount of people with intricate knowledge of the Stones/Gems, their locations, abilities, and drawbacks is pretty limited, I just can't imagine the number of beings walking the stone back being very high.

That we know of, Thanos has the most knowledge on the subject and he didn't even know the cost at all before showing up on Vormir!

I think those who would have this knowledge of this cost aren't really the types to talk about. Clint did, but Thanos didn't tell a soul (pun intended) and I think of the kinds of beings who seek these stones they are far more likely to skew toward his perspective than Hawkeye's. That doesn't mean I'm right of course. The very fact that said knowledge would be so rare indicates that I also have no flipping idea how it works.

But speculate with me for a bit. if Nat did come back after Steve drops the stone, who would know about it? Who would know she was the cost in the first place? Who would connect the two together?Extrapolate that to anyone else who may have walked the stone back to Vormir and postulate the likelihood of such knowledge being as commonplace as you suggest when even the knowledge of the cost itself was so rare.

However, all the in world logic aside (which I admit is total speculation from my end anyway), from a greater storytelling perspective, it would obviously lessen the impact of the sacrifice on the audience, which probably means you are right. They won't do it.
 

MarkB

Legend
I'm just so glad they're tying up the plot thread of what happened to Jim Hopper after the end of the last season of Stranger Things.
 

jonesy

A Wicked Kendragon
Right but they can have that without the joke in the trailer or indeed in the movie. Hell they could have one of them look at the guy who gained weight and say "Yeah, we're all getting older"
The whole line is weird. I've watched the trailer multiple times and he is not fat. At all. He is normal size. If that is his fat then I'd really like to see how skinny he was before. It's almost like the line was written for another larger actor who then got replaced.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Is there some kind of "extra! extra! read all about it" soul stone newspaper out there?
I dunno. Gamora found the location all on her own. She's physically powerful, but has no information-gathering powers to speak of.

he amount of people who know about the stones is few.
I don't know about that. The things have been around literally forever. There is sufficient lore that Thanos knows that if he brings them together he can pull off his plan. Odin, Thor, Loki, and by extension a bunch of other Asgardians who deal with Odin's treasury knew what they were. The Dark Elves knew what they were. The Ancient One knew. The Collector knew - and put out contracts for their retrieval, and low-life Ravagers could find them. It actualy looks like, once you get off Earth, everyone and their grandmother knows at least a little about them.

It seems to me that it is not surprising Gamora could find them - just needed legwork from someone other than Thanos and his most creepy poor-social-skills minions to find it out.

The amount of people who know the soul stones location is even fewer.
See above. Maybe stuff comes together for someone to try every generation or so. Most of them are power-hungry idiots, and they can't get the Soul Stone because they don't actually love anyone but themselves.

The amount of people who know about it's cost? even fewer. That we know of it's Thanos, Nebula speculating about the loss of her sister, and Clint bringing the news back to the Avengers.
Dude, the whole point is that if it is cheap to use, it wouldn't remain secret. Word of a good deal gets around. If it is cheap, the people who die and come back again would talk about their experience when they got back.

Thus, it isn't cheap, because that would have become known. Since it isn't known, it isn't cheap - you don't get your quarter back when you return the carriage.

In the comics continuity, the Souls lost to the stone can be gotten back. But it is far more complicated than getting your deposit back when you return it.


If Tony were alive however...
Tony was poster child for bad life decisions. Tony's life was causing the problems he then had to go fix. Do not listen to Tony. :p

You are right it's probably not a singleton, but given the amount of people with intricate knowledge of the Stones/Gems, their locations, abilities, and drawbacks is pretty limited, I just can't imagine the number of beings walking the stone back being very high.
Then... how does the Stone get there at all? If nobody ever takes it back, why would you have a deposit-bottle mechanism on the thing?

That we know of, Thanos has the most knowledge on the subject and he didn't even know the cost at all before showing up on Vormir!
Again, that doesn't suggest there's a deposit-bottle mechanism.

But speculate with me for a bit. if Nat did come back after Steve drops the stone, who would know about it?
Presumably Cap. I mean, if Cap doesn't know and bring her back, then she's stuck on Vormir - interstellar travel's not in her power set.

Who would know she was the cost in the first place? Who would connect the two together?
All the Avengers knew she was the cost - and Cap comes back for Tony's funeral, to turn the shield over. Do you think Cap would let Clint Barton and the rest live with the guilt when he could remove it? That's not how Cap rolls.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Again, that doesn't suggest there's a deposit-bottle mechanism.

But if there was, you'd just take the Soul Stone to Michigan or Oregon and get TWICE THE SOUL.

Finally, we get out MCU/Seinfeld crossover.
 

Legatus_Legionis

< BLAH HA Ha ha >
Taskmaster is mostly an Avengers villain. He has interacted with Deadpool, but Taskmaster doesn't have a big X-universe history.
So Deadpool IS part of the x-universe, and has intereacted with the Taskmaster.
Taskmaster is interacting with the Black Widow (SarJo).

So Deadpool and the x-universe (indirectly) has interacted with the MCU.

So by using the Taskmaster, they can incorporate the x-universe/Deadpool into the MCU via that connection.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
So Deadpool IS part of the x-universe, and has intereacted with the Taskmaster.

Taskmaster is interacting with the Black Widow (SarJo).

So Deadpool and the x-universe (indirectly) has interacted with the MCU.

So by using the Taskmaster, they can incorporate the x-universe/Deadpool into the MCU via that connection.
Oh, wait. I think you misunderstood me.

Taskmaster has not yet appeared in any movie, to my knowledge. In the movie continuity, he hasn't interacted with anyone yet. Movie-Deadpool has never met Movie-Taskmaster. There is no movie continuity to exploit here.

I was saying they'd interacted in the comics. But, the Avengers (and Spider-Man, and everyone else) has interacted with the X-men directly in the comics. You can hook them in my noting that, like, Peter Parker dated Kitty Pryde for a while, or whatever. Taskmaster doesn't actually add anything you don't already have elsewhere for a hook.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
The whole line is weird. I've watched the trailer multiple times and he is not fat. At all. He is normal size. If that is his fat then I'd really like to see how skinny he was before. It's almost like the line was written for another larger actor who then got replaced.
From every Russian I’ve ever known, if he used to be noticeably more fit, the line isn’t out of place in the slightest.

And he definitely is chubby. From a non American standard, “fat” isn’t wildly inaccurate. His fat is pretty well proportioned, but if he used to have the sort of physique we expect from superheroes...🤷‍♂️

It’s a crummy joke, but it’s not especially out of place.
 

Sadras

Adventurer
Right but they can have that without the joke in the trailer or indeed in the movie. Hell they could have one of them look at the guy who gained weight and say "Yeah, we're all getting older"
Because the word "fat" is now that offensive?
Stand-up comedy must be dying in USA. I miss the days of George Carlin.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Because the word "fat" is now that offensive?
No. Because we are becoming more aware that how we treat people matters, and shaming people for their bodies is hurtful.

It isn't as if fat jokes are thoughtful, insightful, well-crafted comedy that you can be proud of. It's a pretty cheap shot, all in all.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Um, I won't quote it, but his whole, "Americans love to eat" routine might disagree with you.
He loved talking about social issues, including obesity, but he wouldn’t bemoan that some people don’t like fat jokes.

And I know that routine. It was just a cheap fat joke.

Also see, Carlin speaking on Andrew Dice Clay.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Um, I won't quote it, but his whole, "Americans love to eat" routine might disagree with you.
Carlin was old enough to be working under the false assumption that everything was about force of will and character. I don't think he really grasped addiction and depression and socio-economic influences behind what he saw.
 

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