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Black Widow

CapnZapp

Legend
Of course, we aren't really discussing Natashas decision to steal the car.

We're discussing the lazy sloppy decision of the writers who clearly thought nothing about the ramifications. It was just a trope to them.
 

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Janx

Hero
And, presumably, c) insurance. I think she can live with him having to deal with higher premiums for awhile.
dude. when has insurance EVER put a man back to where he was?

Never. They will screw him down to a low pay out and he'll be in a Geo Metro because that's all he can afford with the payout.

That is P's point. She didn't pick a prick to rob. She picked a good family man who has a nice car. She didn't leave him a fat stack of bills. She didn't take a less nice car or find a jerk to rob.

That makes her the bad guy.
 

pukunui

Legend
dude. when has insurance EVER put a man back to where he was?

Never. They will screw him down to a low pay out and he'll be in a Geo Metro because that's all he can afford with the payout.

That is P's point. She didn't pick a prick to rob. She picked a good family man who has a nice car. She didn't leave him a fat stack of bills. She didn't take a less nice car or find a jerk to rob.

That makes her the bad guy.
That's all part of it, yes.

The other part is that, prior to that, when they steal a businessman's SUV, Nat specifically says "You can't just steal a guy's car", to which Yelena responds, "So you want me to chase him down and un-steal it?". This sets Nat up as someone who doesn't appear to approve of random car theft.

Yet, a short time later, Nat seems to have no objections to stealing a fancy sports car. Not only that, but the movie specifically shows us that the car's owner has a family with young kids.

As I said previously, I don't think I would have batted an eye at the car theft if the movie had not set its owner up as a family man. Why did the filmmakers set it up that way? Why include the touching scene where the man embraces his wife and kids as he's closing up his shop for the day?

(EDIT: FYI I can find the scene where they steal the businessman's SUV on YouTube, which is how I was able to verify the dialogue, but I can't find the other scene where they steal the sports car, so I can't confirm that I am remembering it correctly.)
 
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billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
The kids are there, in part, as a contrast to the infodump Yelena is giving about the Red Room and the number of kids it kills. She and Nat are discussing the destruction of girls and young women in a brutal program while kids are playing blissfully in the background, underscoring the warped upbringing and betrayal they suffered. Stealing a nice car from the guy’s body shop (we‘re not even positive it’s his own car) is kind of small potatoes given what’s going on. It’s not liked they hijacked the family minivan.
 

pukunui

Legend
The kids are there, in part, as a contrast to the infodump Yelena is giving about the Red Room and the number of kids it kills. She and Nat are discussing the destruction of girls and young women in a brutal program while kids are playing blissfully in the background, underscoring the warped upbringing and betrayal they suffered. Stealing a nice car from the guy’s body shop (we‘re not even positive it’s his own car) is kind of small potatoes given what’s going on. It’s not liked they hijacked the family minivan.
That's a good point. Thank you.

And you're right -- it hadn't occurred to me that it might not have even been that guy's car!
 

Dire Bare

Legend
Going back to Black Widow, something that's been bothering me a little bit is the portrayal of Nat and Yelena's theft of that family's car as no big deal. The movie makes a point of showing us that the shop owner has a) a fancy car and b) a wife and kids. Then Nat says she knows where the keys are, and the next thing we know, they're driving off in the poor guy's sports car.

Perhaps Nat made arrangements for the car to be returned to him when she was finished with it, but that wasn't shown on-screen. It's not so much that I feel it's out of character for her or anything. It's more that the movie itself presents this theft as just a means of moving the plot forward.

This isn't a huge thing for me. Just something I've been mulling over periodically ever since seeing the movie.
Stealing is wrong. Stealing from a family, a WHOLESOME family . . . seems more wrong. But allowing the bad guys to win, disrupt world governments, cause death, destruction, and chaos, continue to abduct and abuse young girls . . . that's a bit worse.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Going back to Black Widow, something that's been bothering me a little bit is the portrayal of Nat and Yelena's theft of that family's car as no big deal. The movie makes a point of showing us that the shop owner has a) a fancy car and b) a wife and kids. Then Nat says she knows where the keys are, and the next thing we know, they're driving off in the poor guy's sports car.

Perhaps Nat made arrangements for the car to be returned to him when she was finished with it, but that wasn't shown on-screen. It's not so much that I feel it's out of character for her or anything. It's more that the movie itself presents this theft as just a means of moving the plot forward.

This isn't a huge thing for me. Just something I've been mulling over periodically ever since seeing the movie.
Definitely don't watch a James Bond film then! He does that stuff three times before breakfast! :D
 


Janx

Hero
That's a good point. Thank you.

And you're right -- it hadn't occurred to me that it might not have even been that guy's car!
that would make it worse, actually. As a small shop, without even multiple bays and doors, you know this is bare bones. Stealing a car from the small mechanic means he's gonna be liable to the car owner, who might be finger breaky.

Still not cool. Heroes stealing from jerks or unseen owners is socially acceptable. Showing the victim to be likeable, is punching down, and that's bad.

They may have had a reason for showing the family during the talk, but like all choices, there are unintended consequences. Here, it's raising the jerk level of Nat and Brat. Their ledger has some brown in it, now.
 

They are trained assassins. Stealing a car is rather insignificant when considering they kill people.

And while Nat is now an Avenger, and 'one of the good guys', she is also on the run and wanted for breach of the Sokovia Accords at this point in the MCU.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
A better alternative might be to base Thanos's motivation on his love of Death as they did in the comics. That's pretty dark, though.
What?! And have Disney miss the opportunity to preach to us about the real world evil of population increases and consumption of resources?
 

S'mon

Legend
I went with my son. He seemed to enjoy, but I found it pretty dreary at least the last half. The villain was pathetic, his lair was too silly, and there was no exploration of the Red Room.
 

I can imagine an alternative finale for Black Widow, where instead of breaking into a ludicrous sky fortress, she instead has to sneak into an underground facility Mission Impossible-style. I would have liked to see some heist shennanigans; deadly traps, security measures, gadgets. They could have gone all out with this.

But it seems they had only one idea: Black Widow sliding down the side of a crashing fortress. It was all over every trailer for this movie. It felt like they had this sequence finished before they had shot a single scene, or written any story.
 

Stalker0

Legend
So reading the latest reports, seems that while the movie had a very good opening weekend it’s dropped heavily in the second, and based on new predictions it will be in “captain America: first avenger” numbers. Still a financial success of course but not a great success by modern marvel standards.

though that may be less a dig at the movie itself and more on the “theater + streaming” simultaneous release model. Black widow + the next series of movies this year may determine if that model will remain or if they will return to “theater first” once more
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Still a financial success of course but not a great success by modern marvel standards.
This reads as if they're comparing the movie to pre-covid numbers. But they are surely not, because that would be insane.

Can it be theatre owners grasping at straws trying to argue we need to return to the old model?

I'm reminded of the county(?) that proscribed every newfangled "automobile" needed a man with a red flag walking ahead, you know as a reasonable safety precaution that totally wasn't intended to protect the interests of horse carriage shops...
 

hopeless

Adventurer
In a few months time subscriber's of Disney+ won't even have to pay for premium access to watch this movie so why would anyone go to the cinema to watch this movie then?

No wonder they're pissed!
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
In a few months time subscriber's of Disney+ won't even have to pay for premium access to watch this movie so why would anyone go to the cinema to watch this movie then?

No wonder they're pissed!
Offering it on streaming now is Disney hedging their bets in case of people being skittish about returning to theaters. The box office numbers may have dropped, but we don’t know what effect it has had on Disney+ viewing. Only Disney knows that.
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
In a few months time subscriber's of Disney+ won't even have to pay for premium access to watch this movie so why would anyone go to the cinema to watch this movie then?

No wonder they're pissed!
I have Disney+, but I went to see Black Widow to the cinema. In the same vein, I went to see Nomadland and that movie is available without paying premium access. Personally, I enjoy much more seeing movies in the theaters than at home.
 

Stalker0

Legend
In a few months time subscriber's of Disney+ won't even have to pay for premium access to watch this movie so why would anyone go to the cinema to watch this movie then?

No wonder they're pissed!
According to their research, there are a good portion of people that would pay to watch something when it comes out, even if it’s freely offered later.

further, putting it on streaming early increases piracy and the amount of people that would see it through shared passwords and large viewings (aka one person buys it and several people watch it)

now BW is one datapoint, the movies that continue to come out this year will ultimately shake their viewpoint on the best model going toward.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
In a few months time subscriber's of Disney+ won't even have to pay for premium access to watch this movie so why would anyone go to the cinema to watch this movie then?
I neither went to the cinema, nor am I waiting for it to be free. I paid for it on Disney+. It was £19.99, which is much less than it would cost the three of us who watched it to go to the cinema.
 

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