Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
The two are not necessarily in agreement
-Hyp.
Blade barrier - I don't get it...
- Thread starter Maitre Du Donjon
- Start date
The two are not necessarily in agreement
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Re: How hard to exit area of effect?
By the wording of the spell?
"Any creature passing through the blade barrier takes 1d6 points of slashing damage per caster level (maximum 20d6). ... Once the barrier is in place, anything entering or passing through the blades automatically takes damage."
Note that it doesn't say "takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level per round".
The purple worm passes through the barrier, he takes damage. He comes back the other way, he takes damage.
But it doesn't give a time limit on how long it takes you to pass through.
-Hyp.
By the wording of the spell?
"Any creature passing through the blade barrier takes 1d6 points of slashing damage per caster level (maximum 20d6). ... Once the barrier is in place, anything entering or passing through the blades automatically takes damage."
Note that it doesn't say "takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level per round".
The purple worm passes through the barrier, he takes damage. He comes back the other way, he takes damage.
But it doesn't give a time limit on how long it takes you to pass through.
-Hyp.
Buzz-saw purple worm
Hmm, I personally imagine buzz-saw road-kill purple worm. (Beware of flying worm guts!)
Yes of course, by the wording. I think the issue is that the wording doesn't seem to make sense in all cases (such as above). Is the wording simply slopply done, in which case amended text can be used, or should the wording be adhered to, despite the problems?
Here is the amendment that seems to be needed: "A creature or object which is unable to exit the plane of the barrier will take damage on each successive round during which the barrier cannot be exited. Note that the barrier will tend to push creatures or objects out of the plane of effect."
Hmm, I personally imagine buzz-saw road-kill purple worm. (Beware of flying worm guts!)
Yes of course, by the wording. I think the issue is that the wording doesn't seem to make sense in all cases (such as above). Is the wording simply slopply done, in which case amended text can be used, or should the wording be adhered to, despite the problems?
Here is the amendment that seems to be needed: "A creature or object which is unable to exit the plane of the barrier will take damage on each successive round during which the barrier cannot be exited. Note that the barrier will tend to push creatures or objects out of the plane of effect."
Camarath
Pale Master Tarrasque
Re: Re: How hard to exit area of effect?
Passing Through does not mean the same thing as Passes. Passing Through can also mean being within a defined space or medium and moving. You could also rule that each 5ft square of movement within the Blade Barrier counts as Passing Through and triggers the damage. The spell does not say how may times per round the damage can be triggered. So a creature moving 30ft across the Blade Barrier would 1d6/lv per 5ft or 6 times (max damage 120d6). It all depends on how you interpert Passing Through. I feel this is really an individual DM's call unless there is additional Errata on this subject.
Hypersmurf said:
Passing Through does not mean the same thing as Passes. Passing Through can also mean being within a defined space or medium and moving. You could also rule that each 5ft square of movement within the Blade Barrier counts as Passing Through and triggers the damage. The spell does not say how may times per round the damage can be triggered. So a creature moving 30ft across the Blade Barrier would 1d6/lv per 5ft or 6 times (max damage 120d6). It all depends on how you interpert Passing Through. I feel this is really an individual DM's call unless there is additional Errata on this subject.
GreyShadow
Explorer
Re: Re: Vert or Horiz
It's not a question of how high, but for how long you stay up there.
The shortest possible route out of a horizontal blade barrior only inches off the ground is to jump up and out of it.Hypersmurf said:
It's not a question of how high, but for how long you stay up there.
jlhorner1974
First Post
I actually agree with Hypersmurf's interpretation. I think that when you see a horribly worded spell like this one and you try to analyze the wording of the spell for clues as to how it *should* work, that you also should strongly consider whether the interpretation you come up with fits in terms of game balance. I contend that game balance is more important than "can I logically explain this interpretation using real-world science". This is fantasy, after all.
Even though the spell is worded really horribly, when I look at it, 20d6 damage per round is completely unbalanced with any other spell in the game. Yes, you get a Reflex save for no damage if you leave by the shortest route possible.
A good reference spell for clerics is the 5th level Flame Strike, which does 15d6 (max) with half of it holy damage (where resistances do not apply), and a save is given for half.
Now consider blade barrier in the context of the victim only taking damage once if he enters the area of the blades and stops. In this context, blade barrier does 5 dice more damage than flame strike (at 20th level+), but the save also negates the damage completely if the victim leaves the area as quickly as possibly. Also, blade barrier damage is not elemental and resistances do not apply. All in all, this version of blade barrier is probably better than flame strike, even with the weaker effect on a successful save.
Now, consider if you let blade barrier damage every round the victim sits in the barrier. The damage here is astronomical, since at 20th level, the spell duration is 200 minutes, or 2000 rounds. If the victim sits in the barrier for that whole time, he takes a total of 40000d6 damage, with no save, since he is not leaving the area of effect. Even if the victim sits in the area for a single minute, the damage would be 200d6. Doesn't it bother anyone that this is way too much damage for a 6th level spell, even considering the victim is heavily encouraged to try to leave the area (by getting a save for no damage)?? This is epic-level damage capability. There should be no way that a 6ht level spell could *ever* approach epic level damage.
Come on, this amount of damage makes meteor swarm look like a cakewalk. Interpreted this way, the damage is way too good for a 9th level spell, let alone a 6th.
Also, the duration of the spell is 10 minutes/level. Clearly this is meant as a defensive spell meant to protect something, not as an attack spell.
Even though it doesn't make good real world sense, I think the only possible interpretation in terms of game balance is to treat the spell something like an auto-resetting magical trap. If you enter the area of the blades or get caught there and do not leave immediately, you take 20d6. Once you get hit, you cannot be affected by the blade barrier again unless you leave the area of the blades and return.
Under 3E, if your DM did something to hold you in place for a while and then dropped a blade barrier on you and had you sucking 20d6 with no save every round, you'd be crying foul, wouldn't you?
Even though the spell is worded really horribly, when I look at it, 20d6 damage per round is completely unbalanced with any other spell in the game. Yes, you get a Reflex save for no damage if you leave by the shortest route possible.
A good reference spell for clerics is the 5th level Flame Strike, which does 15d6 (max) with half of it holy damage (where resistances do not apply), and a save is given for half.
Now consider blade barrier in the context of the victim only taking damage once if he enters the area of the blades and stops. In this context, blade barrier does 5 dice more damage than flame strike (at 20th level+), but the save also negates the damage completely if the victim leaves the area as quickly as possibly. Also, blade barrier damage is not elemental and resistances do not apply. All in all, this version of blade barrier is probably better than flame strike, even with the weaker effect on a successful save.
Now, consider if you let blade barrier damage every round the victim sits in the barrier. The damage here is astronomical, since at 20th level, the spell duration is 200 minutes, or 2000 rounds. If the victim sits in the barrier for that whole time, he takes a total of 40000d6 damage, with no save, since he is not leaving the area of effect. Even if the victim sits in the area for a single minute, the damage would be 200d6. Doesn't it bother anyone that this is way too much damage for a 6th level spell, even considering the victim is heavily encouraged to try to leave the area (by getting a save for no damage)?? This is epic-level damage capability. There should be no way that a 6ht level spell could *ever* approach epic level damage.
Come on, this amount of damage makes meteor swarm look like a cakewalk. Interpreted this way, the damage is way too good for a 9th level spell, let alone a 6th.
Also, the duration of the spell is 10 minutes/level. Clearly this is meant as a defensive spell meant to protect something, not as an attack spell.
Even though it doesn't make good real world sense, I think the only possible interpretation in terms of game balance is to treat the spell something like an auto-resetting magical trap. If you enter the area of the blades or get caught there and do not leave immediately, you take 20d6. Once you get hit, you cannot be affected by the blade barrier again unless you leave the area of the blades and return.
Under 3E, if your DM did something to hold you in place for a while and then dropped a blade barrier on you and had you sucking 20d6 with no save every round, you'd be crying foul, wouldn't you?
Last edited:
Similar Threads
