Blade Runner rpg - having trouble getting sucked in

[payn]

I think Deckard's presence and interactions with Wallace suggest Deckard isn't a replicant. Wallace desperately wants Replicants to be able to have offspring, and so he wants to know more about Rachel and her child. He has some info about Rachel as a replicant - enough to make a physical duplicate. But if Deckard is also an experimental replicant from the Tyrell Corporation, Wallace seems to know absolutely nothing about it. If he did know, he'd be a lot more careful about him since he would have half the pair of replicants that produced viable offspring.

Same with the replicant liberationists. They seem to think he's human too or they'd be less willing to have him killed. At the very least, they seem to think he's not crucial to the idea of replicants potentially having offspring.

All of this suggests to me that Villeneuve wasn't that interested in continuing to interact with the issue of Deckard as a replicant/human. I think he's strengthening the implication he's human.

All good points. I still wonder about Deckard surviving in the wastes? It would be funny if after all this time Deckard got away (yet again) with passing as human, but I doubt Wallace would make such a mistake.

 

[overgeeked]

True, though I think the whole suppressed religion part might not have played so well in the theater. He had a reoccurring theme of ancient Christians vs the Roman Empire.

Mercerism isn’t suppressed in the novel.

Same as I doubt the game has people rolling up disabilities if human, it would probably be accurate to both the book and film, people would have a fit though. PKD did do a twist on human vs android in Second Variety, so it wouldn't have be out of character for him. The citadel press versions of his stories are really great, because they included his commentary. What would be a great film is his entry from Dangerous Visions, "Faith of Our Fathers" and that could be also be made into a SFRPG as well.

So many of his works have great potential for adaptations. Ubik. Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch. Beyond Lies the Wub. Unteleported Man. On and on.

 

[dragoner]

Mercerism isn’t suppressed in the novel.

So many of his works have great potential for adaptations. Ubik. Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch. Beyond Lies the Wub. Unteleported Man. On and on.

Oh well, probably me not being raised a Christian, my parents were atheist; I remember Mercer being stoned as he walked up the hill on TV.

He is one of the more adapted authors. Though for Scott, and Dick's benefit, the Melrose Ave punk scene was exploding during the filming of Blade Runner, and Scott said a lot just fell together. I sort of have to laugh that both perfect android people are Dutch.

 

[overgeeked]

Oh well, probably me not being raised a Christian, my parents were atheist; I remember Mercer being stoned as he walked up the hill on TV.

Right. The empathy box. The shortish version is humans use the empathy box to merge in community with others and their focus is Mercer going up the hill and being pelted with rocks. The point is to push empathy and Mercerism is the reason everyone wants to take care of animals. It’s the single dominant religion of all humans across all worlds. Mercer is attacked (in the empathy box scene) because he’s a Special (mutated by radioactivity) and can bring animals back from the dead. Though it’s revealed late in the book that Mercer is just an actor, the “stones” were plastic, and the scene was staged/filmed. But it’s also explicitly stated that this revelation won’t make a difference and people will go on believing.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

Now add in empathizing with and humanizing the goblins and having some in the town and on your team.

Well, the party is in dept with bounty hunters on their heels, and they really need that 200 g to make a downpayment to the crime boss to get a couple of weeks respite. Goblins are goblins as people say. Except Bob the Gob in our party, he's a tough mofo who does what needs to be done. And so on...

As always it's a matter of framing and campaign/character tone and concept. My players at least tend to enjoy different tone and expectations in different campaigns.

 

[DarkCrisis]

On the other hand, most groups instead play VtM as Underworld: The RPG (no, not that one, the movie), which is, of course, the snake eating its own tail.

Especially in the 1990s, VtM was the game of katanas and trenchcoats and skin-tight PVC-clad vampires being awesome. Agonizing about addiction and abuse was something that Justin Achilli told them the game was about, but the game as played, not so much.

It sounds like, for better or worse, Free League made a game that's harder to disentangle from its thematic goals (two additional decades of game design evolution will do that).

I loved the Time of the Thin-Blooded -- vampires standing in for homeless crack addicts -- but I would be surprised to learn it got much playtime back in the day.

VtM: thats why i loved the newest edition. The way Blood works makes it an addiction. You have to feed. Old way was just points that you didn't really have to worry about unless you got low.

I remember playing the old versions and my Vamp wake up and be like "Eh im at 8 blood, no need to feed tonight unless I really have to."

 

[DarkCrisis]

I understand why people want Deckard to be human, because all the other humans we see in the film have problems, like Tyrell with his glasses, or Gaff with his cane. While Deckard is a "one man slaughterhouse" taking on the replicants, we're not dying out, these are not our replacements, more human than human ... the film is beautifully done, it has a lot of layers. Batty is like Mercer, the way he sticks a nail through his hand, real stigmata.

I wouldn't call him a slaughterhouse. He pretty much got his ass kicked a lot and survived by luck.

 

[Voadam]

I seem to remember on the rewatch thinking Ford did a great job of portraying affectless depression in the original which makes him seem a bit less normal human emotionally. I remember also being annoyed by it as affectless depression is not that enjoyable to watch for me.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

VtM: thats why i loved the newest edition. The way Blood works makes it an addiction. You have to feed. Old way was just points that you didn't really have to worry about unless you got low.

I remember playing the old versions and my Vamp wake up and be like "Eh im at 8 blood, no need to feed tonight unless I really have to."

Yeah, WWGS made game design strides, but they didn't know back then how to mechanically reinforce what they wanted the game to be about, the way that designers routinely do now.

 

[overgeeked]

Yeah, WWGS made game design strides, but they didn't know back then how to mechanically reinforce what they wanted the game to be about, the way that designers routinely do now.

True. But that kind of design can also be a trap. Too focused and you only have one story to tell with the game and unless it’s an awesome story, there’s no point playing it again. The other side is games like Diplomacy where the core concept of the game is not mechanically reinforced in the slightest.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

True. But that kind of design can also be a trap. Too focused and you only have one story to tell with the game and unless it’s an awesome story, there’s no point playing it again. The other side is games like Diplomacy where the core concept of the game is not mechanically reinforced in the slightest.

For sure. I like a lot of Powered by the Apocalypse games, but you can't use Monster of the Week to run the same sorts of games you would with Monsterhearts, which conversely, I would find hard to run with my kids, because sex is so interwoven into it, even if I otherwise enjoy the teens-in-horror-high genre.

And while you can run either type of game in GURPS, the game doesn't do anything mechanically to reinforce the intended style of play, unless the GM creates something themselves.

There's no one right solution. It just depends on what the designer wants.

If the OP wants cops and action movie stuff in a cyberpunk future, a game that doesn't mechanically reinforce its themes the way Blade Runner does would be a better option. (Reskinning a cyberpunk game to look more like Bladerunner isn't difficult, generally speaking, given how much Blade Runner DNA is in all of them.)

 

[overgeeked]

There's no one right solution. It just depends on what the designer wants.

Also what the referee and players want. I think that's one of the "secrets" to D&D's success. It's a broad RPG rather than a narrow one, if that makes sense. You can use it to tell all kinds of stories in the high fantasy genre. Something like that with simpler mechanics would be my dream. Only for multi-genre stories or different genres.

Cyberpunk Red is apparently a good cyberpunk game, though it too has more of a niche focus. Not sure if the OP is interested in cyber-newsies or rockers in their dystopian future noir. There's also CY_BORG, a MORK BORG game.

 

[MGibster]

True. But that kind of design can also be a trap. Too focused and you only have one story to tell with the game and unless it’s an awesome story, there’s no point playing it again. The other side is games like Diplomacy where the core concept of the game is not mechanically reinforced in the slightest.

That's kind of a reductionist arguement, but there's some truth to it. Blade Runner was designed to run a very, very specific type of game, and using it for something other than what it was intended probably won't work very well. I don't see this as a negative, as it's likely I will only play a limited number of games anyway. But someone expecting a tool kit will be disappointed all they got was a hammer.

 

[MGibster]

Cyberpunk Red is apparently a good cyberpunk game, though it too has more of a niche focus. Not sure if the OP is interested in cyber-newsies or rockers in their dystopian future noir.

It's not. At least not in my opinion. The economy makes no sense, have your special role skill be "Call on NPC for aid" and "I have access to a car" are weak, the combat rules aren't good, and the cyberware and equipment aren't all that great either. I would rather play Cyberpunk 2020.

 

[aramis erak]

IDK, its a really interesting thought exercise. If Deckard is designed for longer life span (nexus 7 like Rachel), and to pass as human, he could learn a lot about going undetected by being in the LAPD and detecting replicants himself. Hiding in plain sight if you will. It also has interesting implications in the second film if Deckard is a replicant and he and Rachel were able to reproduce (could have been a long term goal of the Nexus 7?) that is even more existential to humanity. The possibilities and ambiguity are definitely interesting parts of this story.

Only if he's aware he's a replicant.

But if Deckard is also an experimental replicant from the Tyrell Corporation, Wallace seems to know absolutely nothing about it. If he did know, he'd be a lot more careful about him since he would have half the pair of replicants that produced viable offspring.

Agreed; excellent point...
And...
Tyrell : Wouldn't obstruct replication; but it does give rise to an error in replication, so that the newly formed DNA strand carries with it a mutation - and you've got a virus again... but this, all of this is academic. You were made as well as we could make you.
Batty : But not to last.
(Blade Runner (1982) - IMDb)

Same with the replicant liberationists. They seem to think he's human too or they'd be less willing to have him killed. At the very least, they seem to think he's not crucial to the idea of replicants potentially having offspring.

The question of replicant viability for reproduction would seem pretty much solidly "no" based upon the lack of replicants having children.
Especially given that 3-4 year olds are intensely curious, and there are implications of sexual relationships between the replicants in BR[2019]...
if they were capable of replicant-replicant breeding, Tyrrel Corp would change to a 2.5 to 3 year lease business model... then show them naughty flicks and have a creche...
But the implications of the above linked discussion imply that Tyrell Corp isn't quite capable of that level of manipulation.

 

[Charles Dunwoody]

Got my set and book. Good system, but thematically I'm having trouble getting sucked in. In fact, I have this odd feeling that something is turning me off. Something isn't sitting right. I keep stopping reading the adventure.

Partly, it is the 6 point body text font which is a huge mistake for GMs reference and prep in an adventure, but thats my only presentation complaint.

Something else is bugging me though. Rep-detect officers are about retiring homocidal and defective/problematic models (e.g. n-8). All models have the potential to be problems (Wallace's big secret no matter the model anyways..as they can have their own emotional response in addition to reps being innately narcissistic.
There are groups of people who are organized to hate or always-give-a-pass to reps. This rpg really plays up for rep sympathy and youre a crap person if you think otherwise.
It smacks too much of today's popular extremism news trends. Every criminal/shoplifter/murderer is misunderstood, drow/orcs arent really evil, and every policeman is a bigot, etc.

Am I not seeing this correctly? Help me understand how I'm supposed to enjoy a game that feels like a mirror of the worst un-fun current news tripe and just more cop-trauma rather than cop-drama.

We played it at a recent convention and the themes were presented accurate to the rpg. Now Im prepping to run for my group. I get that youre supposed to be conflicted, but this seems a bit cliche, depressing, and I worry about redundancy during multiple adventures on the 'fun' factor. Inflicting real-world ptsd on my players seems like a pretty miserable way to spend my gaming time.

How is it that Cyberpunk and Judge Dredd can be fun themes and this seem so icky?

At its heart, Blade Runner has a push and pull dual mechanism in place: Promotion Points and Humanity Points. Promotion Points get your Blade Runner LAPD training, specialized gear, and possible pay raises. They make life better and the job easier. Humanity Points raise skills. But they require doing the right thing which is usually the hard thing and could lead to the loss of Promotion Points if exposed. It is hard to get both at the same time.

Promotion Points are gained by closing Cases and protecting fellow officers for example. They are lost for letting fugitives get away or violating an order IF the Blade Runner gets caught. See page 220 for more.

Humanity Points are gained for acts of compassion and humanity. It is literally half the game. Refusing to upload evidence to protect someone. Refuse to follow orders because the PC felt they were wrong. See page 220 for a large list.

Push and pull. No easy answers.

These are powerful mature themes and PCs should feel stretched and challenged at nearly every turn. At times they might actually get to save hostages to the positive. At other times they may come across a Replicant who says their owner ordered them to commit unlawful acts or another Replicant who says their employer murdered a Replicant co-worker. What do they do? That literally is the game, not solving Cases. The RPG is very clear about this point.

Page 217: It's Not About the Case: The core purpose of the game is to confront the player characters with challenging personal and moral dilemmas, letting them ask themselves what makes them who they are.

These are deep complex issues. That is the whole point of Blade Runner the RPG. Explore these difficulties through your Blade Runner and learn what it means to be truly human. You just might have to choose between your life or your humanity. Not a beer and pretzels RPG but it isn't meant to be.

Hope that helps.

 

[reelo]

IME, there were also a weird number of people who viewed it as a way to try to get laid, presumably because it was the first RPG with a large number of female players. (For the record, I don't know anyone that worked for, although there were apparently some very horny LARP groups out there. Viva la Toreador.)

Yeah... Didn't work for me. Butbthen again, I always played Malkavian.

 

[aramis erak]

IME, there were also a weird number of people who viewed it as a way to try to get laid, presumably because it was the first RPG with a large number of female players. (For the record, I don't know anyone that worked for, although there were apparently some very horny LARP groups out there. Viva la Toreador.)

Yeah... Didn't work for me. Butbthen again, I always played Malkavian.

I know a bunch of people it worked for... women, for the most part.

Then again, most women gamers are more astute to the guys' motivations than many of the guys are aware of. Especially in the 14 to 24 age bracket.

The 1E VTM game as written is interesting mechanically; the revised mechanics less so, and more favorable to the munchkins; the nWoD rules don't seem to have curbed the munchkin support. I've not see the newest edition, but I doubt I could get any of them to table.