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5.5E Blast from the past

dave2008

Legend
For creatures below CR 1, in 5e it is more or less true due to bounded accuracy, but then there are enemys like the thug, who have more than 30 hp for a 1/2 CR creature. But it has quite low AC. So at least you need a default ability to turn accuracy into damage.
Something like: -5 to hit = +10 damage? ;)
 

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Helpful NPC Thom

Adventurer
Because, personal experience is the limit to what happens?
Snark is unseemly.

If 90% of people implement the rules improperly, I'd say there's a problem with the rules. 4e's conceptual design of skill challenges was workable; the presentation was deeply flawed; the numerical balance was iffy. Trying to implement narrative mechanics into D&D has always been more miss than hit because the system's not designed for it.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Snark is unseemly.

If 90% of people implement the rules improperly...

So, the point wasn't snark. The point was to literally question the use of personal experience as a measure.

And here, you whip out a 90% number out of nowhere, as if that number is meaningful, or indicative, or anything other than an unfounded assertion.

It is enough to make someone want to be snarky. :p
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
@DEFCON 1 is such a gaslighter sometimes. Any problem someone has with 5E you will make sure that the person knows its their fault.
Heh heh... or is it actually that any time someone has a problem with 5E, they only have a few choices to actually solve their problem... and spending pages upon pages of posts complaining about said problem isn't one of them.

Solution #1: You have a problem with the game... then you make up your own rules or find someone else's rules to solve that problem and you add them to your game.

Solution #2: You have a problem with the game but are unwilling to make up new rules to fix it... then you play the game with the problem still there and you just deal with it.

However, Solution #3: You have a problem with the game... so you make post after post after post on EN World mentioning that it's a problem and then sometime down the line WotC sees your complaint and then magically changes the writing in your book so the problem no longer exists.... well, I think we all know the odds of that happening. ;)

Don't get mad at me that you keep thinking if you just talk about what you want a whole lot that WotC will finally have no choice but to give it to you. That's not how any of this works.
 

Helpful NPC Thom

Adventurer
So, the point wasn't snark. The point was to literally question the use of personal experience as a measure.

And here, you whip out a 90% number out of nowhere, as if that number is meaningful, or indicative, or anything other than an unfounded assertion.
Nine dentists out of ten recommend not using 4e's skill challenge system.

I wasn't speaking literally in terms of statistics, but my experience has been similarly frustrating in regards to skill challenges, and I have heard like sentiments shared from other gamers. Anecdotally. The overall critique has to do with "immersion," or what I'd phrase as meta-mechanical transparency (progress clocks work in Blades in the Dark, they feel off in D&D).

There's a usable rules framework in skill challenges. The game needs a hefty chunk of rules text to communicate how to run one properly: appropriate DCs (less important in 5e), successes/failure thresholds, setting appropriate stakes, and a handful of sample skill challenges.
 


Nefermandias

Adventurer
So instead of speaking about existing systems that should be altered or removed, how about this question.

For the upcoming rules refresh/revamp, what rule or system would you like to see return that didn't either appear in 5th ed at all, or is just a shadow of it's former self.

My vote: 4th ed's skill challenges. Probably still needs some work, but the potential is there.
I am a huge fan of 4e, but I wouldn't like to see Skill Challenges back in the game.

You see, skills work very differently in 5e. They used to be like buttons to be pushed by the characters, with distinct effects and DCs, now they are a tool for the DM to determine the outcome of an action whenever there's a level of uncertainty.

I like both approaches, but I would very much like to keep them separate.
 

ehren37

Adventurer
I havent played Pathfinder 2, but Tyranny essentially had that and fights got repetitive fast. Every encounter you basically ran through the same script. The system would need to be modified with random elements of some kind - more builders/consumers/reactions, or similar to the book of 9 swords where not all maneuvers are available each round.
 

ehren37

Adventurer
3e Binders. So much awesome flavor coupled with interesting mechanics.

The bloodied condition and abilities that triggered off of it.

A return to 4E's monster design, with clear roles for combat (since that's realistically how they'll be used the majority of the time). I had an extra tier of minions (goons) which had a damage threshold based on the creature's tier. Goons died if they took their threshold or more from a single attack. Any damage below it, bloodied the goon. A bloodied goon died if it took any damage, and many bloodied goons would try and flee or surrender. I loathe tracking hit points on "random grunt #4".
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
4e build-a-balanced-monster, plus a description of melee, single-target, and zone attacks which are level appropriate. Use one (non-iconic) monster as the 'design example'.
In the DMG and a shorter version (modify an existing monster) in the MM.
 




Professor Murder

Adventurer
3e Binders. So much awesome flavor coupled with interesting mechanics.

The bloodied condition and abilities that triggered off of it.

A return to 4E's monster design, with clear roles for combat (since that's realistically how they'll be used the majority of the time). I had an extra tier of minions (goons) which had a damage threshold based on the creature's tier. Goons died if they took their threshold or more from a single attack. Any damage below it, bloodied the goon. A bloodied goon died if it took any damage, and many bloodied goons would try and flee or surrender. I loathe tracking hit points on "random grunt #4".
A very cool idea
 


I havent played Pathfinder 2, but Tyranny essentially had that and fights got repetitive fast. Every encounter you basically ran through the same script. The system would need to be modified with random elements of some kind - more builders/consumers/reactions, or similar to the book of 9 swords where not all maneuvers are available each round.
A full rebuild would be much better than keeping the Adventuring Day.
 




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