Blatant abuse of the five foot step?

[reveal]

Am I the only one who refuses to read SBMC's text for fear of losing my eyesight? Maybe I'm just getting too old, but that font+color is painful to read.

It's just you. You're too old.

 

[Bastoche]

I disagree. Leverage is not needed to throw something. F = ma, and daggers have very little m compared to the thrower, so the speed and force of the dagger would be only very slightly reduced - not enough to reduce the strength bonus, IMO.

A 20-foot fall does seem pretty short to contain a full attack, though.

(Hyp, I was thinking of getting the Sin City DVD this week, and now I'm almost sure of it. )

Be careful using physical argument. You cannot use F=ma so simply in the case of a falling guy because it's in an accelerated referential... That being said, throwing a dagger while falling can perfectly do normal damage IMO. In answer to dimwit's arguement: In my physics class, we had a problem to solve where an astronaut had to throw his tools to return to the spaceship. The question was wheter he should throw them all at once or one after the other. In other words, the "leverage" for throwing the dagger is your arm relative to your body and not the dagger relative to a fixed point. I think that's what Len wanted to point out and in this regard, he is right.

 

[Bastoche]

Am I the only one who refuses to read SBMC's text for fear of losing my eyesight? Maybe I'm just getting too old, but that font+color is painful to read.

No you're not. They are always too long too.

 

[swrushing]

So I guess a better way to phrase it is: can you take a full non-movement action (such as a full attack) and then take a five foot step to intentionally fall 10 or more feet, or should that require a move action?

FWIW: I do not require characters to spend an action in order to fall. whether that fall be 5', 10' or 100' is irrelevent.

 

[Thaniel]

Am I the only one who refuses to read SBMC's text for fear of losing my eyesight? Maybe I'm just getting too old, but that font+color is painful to read.

No, you're not. But I was mainly refusing to read it because of the silly rulings it portrays. Max damage? Not called for. There's nowhere in the rules (other than a Maximized spell) that calls for max damage automatically. I think this is penalizing people for wanting to do cool things in what is supposed to be a fun game.

 

[Len]

Am I the only one who refuses to read SBMC's text for fear of losing my eyesight? Maybe I'm just getting too old, but that font+color is painful to read.

Try switching to the Stealth style. You still won't be able to read it, but white-on-white doesn't hurt your eyes.

 

[SBMC]

Is This Better??????

Am I the only one who refuses to read SBMC's text for fear of losing my eyesight? Maybe I'm just getting too old, but that font+color is painful to read.

Sorry about that - I write these in MS word then paste them in...I did no realize it hurt to read them

Is this better.

Which I think is one of the biggest issues with this discussion.
"Jumping down" involves taking care to aim to land; to attempt to land as safely as possible and the like. Stepping off is a careless act that results in a fall; an uncontrolled fall. The same as if a pit opened up under you except you did it intentionally and thus have to pay a price fo it.

When you jump:
Step 1: You run or just start jumping (inclusive of jumping down)
Step 2: Travel the distance that you wanted to
Step 3: Land

Those three things cost a single move action. Like drawing a weapon without quick draw any individual one should also cost a move action - but together synergize to cost only one move action.

Scenario #1
As the rules state and I noted above; if I run out of movement in the middle of the jump I stay stuck in that position until my next turn where I then continue my movement.
So for two rounds in a row I use up a move action.

Scenario #2
I am walking down a corridor (using a move action) and fall into a 40 foot pit. I fall (free action) and hit the bottom taking 4d6 points of damage. I fail my save to stay upright and am now prone. Since my movement was interrupted like that I do indeed loose any additional movement I had left in my move action.
I did no get charged an action for the fall and thus I can make a move or standard action as normal. Say I stand up as a move action; that makes the two move actions in one round and my turn is over.

Scenario #3
I am walking down a corridor, I have a 30' normal movement; and I state I am making a double move (2 move actions). However after moving 25' I fall into a 40 foot pit. I fall (free action) and hit the bottom taking 4d6 points of damage. I fail my save to stay upright and am now prone. Since my movement was interrupted like that I do indeed loose any additional movement I had left in my move action - in this case 5'. Do I loose my second move action because I fell? Of course not: thus I can make a move or standard action as normal.

Scenario #4
I am walking down a corridor, I have a 30' normal movement; and I state I am making a double move (2 move actions). However after moving 45' I fall into a 40 foot pit. I fall (free action) and hit the bottom taking 4d6 points of damage. I fail my save to stay upright and am now prone. Since my movement was interrupted like that I do indeed loose any additional movement I had left in my move action - in this case 15'. I already took my first move action and my second move action was interrupted - my turn is over.

Scenario #5
I am walking down a corridor and see a pit in the floor. I look down and decide that I want to jump down there; intentionally attempting to aim my fall and land properly. I burn a move action as I "jump down" fall and land. Now I still have a move action or standard action I can take this round.

Scenario #6
I am walking down a corridor and see a pit in the floor. I look down and decide that I want to fall down there; intentionally just stepping into mid air by making a 5 foot move. I am not trying to aim myself or make any attempt to point my feet forward first.
To quote myself:
This is no covered in the rules. As I stated above: I would say that that is indeed a 5 foot step. However because I stepped off of here I can:

A. Burn a move action and fall and take max damage (4d6=24 points) and take a -40 penalty to my save to stay upright (better off just jumping down when you have the chance).
B. Take no further actions (even if I have some left) and stay in midair until my next turn. Then on my next turn fall, that fall happens first thing the your turn before anything else; you have no chance to get an action off before you fall. The pit is 40' so I hit the ground and take 24 points of damage and get a -40 penalty to stay upright when I land.

To clarify:
Now in the event that say the character does not hit the ground on that subsequent round (say the pit is 100 feet deep) then once the character does hit the bottom he takes 60 points of damage (and in my game that calls for a save - we use that variant rule (I forget the name at the moment) where if you take 50 points of damage from one attack you need to make a fort save or die. We also use the "clobbered" variant rule. You also get a -100 to your roll to stay upright (making it pretty much impossible)

The only game mechanics advantage to this is for the character that you can take a full round action on the turn that you step off that ledge; BEFORE you make that step. I can be advantageous if the fall will take longer than one round and you want to take a full round action on the turn that you step off that ledge; BEFORE you make that step. Then on that second round you can still take your 2 actions as normal while falling. The kicker is you take all that damage and pretty much most non epic characters will end up prone.

 

[dcollins]

No! If you're serious, just stop formatting it at all.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Just copy/paste into notepad, then copy/paste into the ENworld editor. Since the ENworld editor does have a paste special option, you need some method to strip the Word formatting. Alternatively, and I haven't tried this, highlight your post in the editor and select "Remove Text Formatting."

The yellow is a little better since it has a better contrast than the ghost-white thin text, but I'm still an old man at 36 with poor eyesight. Why, back in my day . . .

 

[SBMC]

No you're not. They are always too long too.

I used to get accused of not showing enough "evidence" of what I wrote; now it's to much…I guess I need to find a happy medium.

No, you're not. But I was mainly refusing to read it because of the silly rulings it portrays. Max damage? Not called for. There's nowhere in the rules (other than a Maximized spell) that calls for max damage automatically. I think this is penalizing people for wanting to do cool things in what is supposed to be a fun game.

No you're not. They are always too long too.

I used to get accused of not showing enough "evidence" of what I wrote; now it's to much…I guess I need to find a happy medium.

No, you're not. But I was mainly refusing to read it because of the silly rulings it portrays. Max damage? Not called for. There's nowhere in the rules (other than a Maximized spell) that calls for max damage automatically. I think this is penalizing people for wanting to do cool things in what is supposed to be a fun game.

Sorry ya feel that way - but if someone wants to step off the edge of a cliff and do it carelessly (as in actually stepping off) then they are going to pay a price - go to an empty pool and "jump down" into it. Then go back up and "walk of the edge" into it. After your out of the hospital let me know if you see a difference there. That is why I demand max damage. Not to mention i it is onl 20 feet or so - that is still only 12 poins of damage. To a combatant (Figher, barb, Ranger, etc.) that is not a whole lot unlss your 1st or 2nd level. But then again at that level you only get one attack anyway - so just jump down.

If they choose to "jump down" then they get the advantage of the rules. Also think about how long it takes to fall - not much (someone above calculated it)

The only thing the guy in the original post needed to do was to jump down, as defined in the rules, and the DM (I would to) allow him to attack at any time during his fall - a single attack that is. If his falling would take more than one round I would allow a full attack during a round in which he did not "jump off" or "land" as normal.

Not to mention what would you let this guy to use for an action seeing as he made his full attack and 5 foot move in a round - exactly how would he land?

If you are saying you would allow a character to jump off a ledge with a five foot move and make a full attack then that is your preference; the starter of the thread asked for clarification of something that is not clearly defined in the rules.

One thing is also being forgotten - a round is a mere 6 seconds of time; how much do you think you can do in that time?