Blatant abuse of the five foot step?

[Ace]

Ok, a character in our group has 3 attacks when making a full attack. Here's the situation, the character is on a second story, standing at the edge. There are enemies on the ground floor. He wants to attack them with a ranged weapon and get to the bottom floor.
So, he declares that he takes a five foot step off the edge and while falling, throws three daggers (thusly taking his full attack, as he claims the five foot is 'free')
As a concession, he is offers to take full damage from the fall and a penalty to hit (-6 per attack). We have fairly high base attacks, so the penalty won't matter too much, but that is besides the point I suppose.
I am arguing that this is a blatant abuse of the five foot step rule, as IMO is was not intended for this kind of thing, so we have a fierce debate going on
What do you guys think? We're playing right now, so chime up!!!!

sounds fun. I would allow it. It is an abuse of the 5 foot step but at least in my game it adds to the fun factor so I say go for it.

 

[Nail]

5' Step, all the way.

If there was a platform overhanging the edge of the building, you'd allow him to 5' step to it, right?

Now make that platform illusory.

...sure, I got that. But at this stage I'm thinking about intent. (In a rules forum? How dare I?!!) I freely admit there is only a thin veneer of RAW over this rules chasm. (Perhaps it's illusory?)

Given that you cannot take a 5-foot step in a direction in which you have no normal mode of movement, and given that we're not talking about a illusory platform, the PC in question can't make the move without a move action.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Given that you cannot take a 5-foot step in a direction in which you have no normal mode of movement, and given that we're not talking about a illusory platform, the PC in question can't make the move without a move action.

What if the PC thinks there might be an invisible platform of force he can stand on?

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

What if the PC thinks there might be an invisible platform of force he can stand on?

-Hyp.

Like if he's got a really good Bluff check, and a really bad Sense Motive check? He could lie to himself with ease!

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I would actually encourage my players to be this creative and cinematic

Damn skippy, I would too. Its like I'm reading a thread about people trying ti find a rules interpretation in order to take to cool out. I mean sure if its blatantly against the rules, dont allow it, but because the rules dont cover it dont allow it seems kind of odd to me.

Yeah thats what got us great feats lin Eberon like investigate. I mean I know looking for clues was never specifically mentioned under the search skill before, but I guess letting poeple search for clues without a feat was wrong. Since the 5' step fall isnt specifically mentioned I guess I need a feat. True Falling (General) If within 5' of an edge, you can use a 5' move to step off it and fall.

 

[mirivor]

Your player should make his full attack, then five foot step off of the ledge. His fall starts at the beginning of his initiative on the following round. This is the same as the Jump skill. If your jump check exceeds your allowed move in a round, then you move your maximum distance but remain in the air until the following round, at which point you either move the remainder of the jump distance (If it is within your maximum movement rate) or continue to remain in the air, moving your maximum distance once more... lather, rinse, repeat. Taking a full attack and then moving more than five feet during a single turn is ludicrous, regardless of any interpretations. A full turn is 6 seconds... do we suddenly extend that time for falling characters? I think not. If Joe schmoe sorcerer casts a spell using a standard action then jumps off of a thousand foot cliff, do we suddenly extend the length of his turn so that he can fall the thousand feet? Or maybe we delclare that he falls at 3 or 4 times terminal velocity for a human body, that way he hits the bottom in his alloted time :\

Sorry about my tone... I am going on vacation with 4 kids and my lovely wife.... Ready to pull my freakin' hair out!

 

[Infiniti2000]

I mean sure if its blatantly against the rules, dont allow it, but because the rules dont cover it dont allow it seems kind of odd to me.

It is blatantly against the rules (using a 5ft-step in this manner) and that's all we're debating. If the rules simply didn't cover it, that's how we'd respond. I don't think anyone's disallowing the action in this thread, just disallowing it as a 5ft-step per the RAW. Many people houserule that 5ft-steps off an edge are Okay. But, it's not the rule.

What is more of a gray area is the illusory edge scenario.

 

[Sledge]

So this character has an abysmal jump check obviously or else the movement action required to stand up next round would be better spent on jumping down NEXT round.
I'd quite easily let it happen as suggested, but this shouldn't be a heroic action, this should result in at least some embarrasment for the character.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

just wondering. How is it abusive to full attack and then fall flat on your face?

I can't see any rules reason for dissallowing this, nor can I see a RPing reason.

Illusionary or not, if the character choses to step blithly into the air.... okay..no big. You risk more damage than if you had jumped and end up prone....eh

oh well.

 

[mrtauntaun]

just wondering. How is it abusive to full attack and then fall flat on your face?

Because you can't do it all in one turn. You can't take a full attack AND take a five foot step AND fall that far all in one turn. That's more than six seconds.
My original concern is that it's trying to move an extrra 20 feet or so in a turn. When you take a full attack, the only action you can take (other than the stand free actions, talking, etc) is to take a five foot step. The most movement you can get out of a five foot step (excluding magic) is five feet. That can easily be implied from the RAW.
The BEST result you can get would be to end the turn in mid air, conceding that.
I would still argue you can't do that with a five foot step, as it that would constitue 'difficult terrain'.
EDIT: I wouldn't rule that this could not be attempted, it is and was a very cool thing to try. However, it's just too much to accomplish in six seconds, by the RAW. IMHO.