Blood & Fists: Cool!

[Plane Sailing]

My d20M manual is with a friend at the moment (running the excellent d20m campaign I play in) so I can't check the details, but... can't you use "knockout blow" against someone who is flatfooted? (The condition is distinctly different from "denied dex bonus"). Certainly you are more vulnerable to Head Butt and Heart Punch which can stun you if flatfooted.

Cheers!

 

[Vigilance]

My d20M manual is with a friend at the moment (running the excellent d20m campaign I play in) so I can't check the details, but... can't you use "knockout blow" against someone who is flatfooted? (The condition is distinctly different from "denied dex bonus"). Certainly you are more vulnerable to Head Butt and Heart Punch which can stun you if flatfooted.

Cheers!

That's correct, however, your defense will almost certainly be worse prone, also making you vulnerable to head butt and heart punch, as well as making you vulnerable to heel kicks, elbow strikes etc.

*AND* you have to take a move action to make the prone condition go away (flat-footed fades automatically).

*AND* you take an attack penalty of -4 while prone.

*AND* taking that move action to stand up provokes an attack of opportunity.

I just think being prone is a lot worse than baing flat-footed for one round, but, as always that might just be me.

Chuck

 

[ledded]

At first I felt that flat-footed was worse than being prone, but after listening to your arguments to the contrary, I see your point.

I think for me, it was that old hold-out from D&D where every 3rd person has insane sneak-attack damage, multiple attacks, and some kind of sharp pokey implement so being caught flat-footed has about the same feeling as smearing hamburger on your nether regions and lying down in a den of hungry bears.

 

[Vigilance]

At first I felt that flat-footed was worse than being prone, but after listening to your arguments to the contrary, I see your point.

I think for me, it was that old hold-out from D&D where every 3rd person has insane sneak-attack damage, multiple attacks, and some kind of sharp pokey implement so being caught flat-footed has about the same feeling as smearing hamburger on your nether regions and lying down in a den of hungry bears.

Well- they're both bad- and especially since I do use sneak attack damage in my Blood and Guts game, I am listening.

For the record, I dont think bring prone is a LOT worse than being flat-footed, but I do think its worse, mostly because being flat-footed goes away by itself, whereas being prone lasts until you get up, and suck up an attack of opportunity.

However, someone with Improved Ground Fighting might want to fail the save, which strikes me as odd now that I think about it.

BTW- any other little tidbits that bother people, now is the time. I am currently preparing to revise BNF as a prelude to working up the sequal.

Psion, your blocking/timing issue is already on my list

Chuck

 

[Plane Sailing]

One other thing that I noticed then which is slightly improper use of d20 terminology.

I think it is in the acrobatic mastery 3.

You say something along the lines of "can take 20 while under stress without taking 20 times as long".

You would be much better to say "can take 10 while under stress and has a +10 acrobatic bonus to the check".

Taking 20 has a very specific meaning, and there isn't any reason to confuse people by redefining it. The second way of writing the ability sticks to the existing mechanism and will not forment confusion

Cheers

 

[ledded]

Well- they're both bad- and especially since I do use sneak attack damage in my Blood and Guts game, I am listening.

For the record, I dont think bring prone is a LOT worse than being flat-footed, but I do think its worse, mostly because being flat-footed goes away by itself, whereas being prone lasts until you get up, and suck up an attack of opportunity.

However, someone with Improved Ground Fighting might want to fail the save, which strikes me as odd now that I think about it.

BTW- any other little tidbits that bother people, now is the time. I am currently preparing to revise BNF as a prelude to working up the sequal.

Psion, your blocking/timing issue is already on my list

Chuck

As far as someone with Improved Ground Fighting wanting to fail the save, that's not odd, that's tactics. The guy with IGF may literally allow himself to be tripped in order to 'feint' or draw the attacker into an action that may expose himself; the attacker has no idea that you have IGF until you do something to him that indicates otherwise. Personally, I see it as a good sound tactic that I've seen a few martial artists use on occasion (though it does have it's risks).

 

[Vigilance]

True- and certainly that's a page right out of the drunken master playbook.

Chuck

 

[barsoomcore]

Drunken masters have playbooks?

This book is sounding really great, but I'd like to hear from some people who have actually played with it. How does a combat using this system run? Is it slower than normal combat, does it place more of a load on the DM (or on the players), or what?

Sounds wicked cool, though.

 

[JPL]

Drunken masters have playbooks?

This book is sounding really great, but I'd like to hear from some people who have actually played with it. How does a combat using this system run? Is it slower than normal combat, does it place more of a load on the DM (or on the players), or what?

Sounds wicked cool, though.

My only recommendation would be to have the PC sheets break down all the characters' major combat options, including various special moves and such.

I'm on the cusp of a new game set in 1930s Shanghai...all of the PCs will be have enough of a martial arts background to handle the various rogue Shaolin and ninja assassins that will be coming their way.

 

[Vigilance]

My only recommendation would be to have the PC sheets break down all the characters' major combat options, including various special moves and such.

I'm on the cusp of a new game set in 1930s Shanghai...all of the PCs will be have enough of a martial arts background to handle the various rogue Shaolin and ninja assassins that will be coming their way.

Right- you basically need to treat each maneuver like a different weapon, with each maneuver's damage and attack bonus calculated. It's a little extra work, but my playtest group was able to eyeball maneuvers pretty quickly, and combat doesn't slow down imo.

There are some objective reviews from Psion here on ENWorld, and two by gaming report staff reviewers, for those interested in learning more information that doesnt come from me.

Chuck