Bloodlines vs Half-

[lottrbacchus]

So I was just re-reading bloodlines and they seem really really weak compared to half-things.

Take Bloodline Red Dragon vs Half-Red-Dragon

For the cost of 3 class levels you get : A) a few skills, +2 Natural Armor, a couple of feats, breath weapon at 16th level, fire immunity at 20th, and a total of +3 to attributes or

B) improved Hit Dice, +4 Natural Armor, Darkvision, Lowlight Vision, Sleep & Paralysis Immunity, Breath Weapon at the start, and +14 to attributes.

It doesn't seem to mesh. What would you do to 'fix' it?

 

[kreynolds]

What book is the Bloodline in?

 

[javcs]

What book is the Bloodline in?

Bloodlines are in Unearthed Arcana.

Bear in mind that the HD upgrade would only be for RACIAL HD, not class level HD.

 

[dirkformica]

Well, bloodline levels do increase spell caster level and level derived class abilities like turning or domain powers, so they tend to be better for casters than LA or racial HD. I don't have Tome of Battle but have heard Bloodlines do some funky things to initiator levels. They can also be interesting with PrCs like Ur-Priest or Sublime Chord.

 

[Diggus Rex]

Bloodlines I think are supposed to be weaker than the half template. They represent distant ancestry, whereas half template is saying one of your parents is that thing (a stronger link).

 

[freefall]

Bloodlines I think are supposed to be weaker than the half template. They represent distant ancestry, whereas half template is saying one of your parents is that thing (a stronger link).

But if that's the case shoudn't the Major bloodline have a smaller LA cost? The way the half templates are balanced out is throught the LA system. It seems strange to have a balancing meathod and then say the same for the same balance offset (+3 LA) two benifits with a large Differential in power (as pointed out by the OP)

 

[javcs]

But if that's the case shoudn't the Major bloodline have a smaller LA cost? The way the half templates are balanced out is throught the LA system. It seems strange to have a balancing meathod and then say the same for the same balance offset (+3 LA) two benifits with a large Differential in power (as pointed out by the OP)

The 'Bloodline Levels', aren't the same as LA. LA doesn't affect anything in a positive manner, the bloodline levels do. Like dirkformica said, bloodline levels are better for a caster than an LA.

 

[Diggus Rex]

But if that's the case shoudn't the Major bloodline have a smaller LA cost? The way the half templates are balanced out is throught the LA system. It seems strange to have a balancing meathod and then say the same for the same balance offset (+3 LA) two benifits with a large Differential in power (as pointed out by the OP)

I think it does, as dirkformica pointed out. That Bloodline levels still contribute to character level, while LA numbers give nothing, in effect makes them "cheaper".

Also with Bloodlines your adjusted level need not be "pre-paid". If you dont play up to level 12, you've only "lost" two levels. With the half-dragon template, you loose the top three levels you would've had automaitically. Bloodlines use deferred payments as it were.

 

[dirkformica]

With a Minor Bloodline if you never see 12th level play, then you get something for nothing.

 

[lottrbacchus]

I think it does, as dirkformica pointed out. That Bloodline levels still contribute to character level, while LA numbers give nothing, in effect makes them "cheaper".

Also with Bloodlines your adjusted level need not be "pre-paid". If you dont play up to level 12, you've only "lost" two levels. With the half-dragon template, you loose the top three levels you would've had automaitically. Bloodlines use deferred payments as it were.

Second point first: pretty good point. And a 1 CL Half-elestial, for example, would have a pretty hard time keeping up with its party of 5th level Humans (this example assumes ECL of 5 for the starting party).

First point second: "Cheaper", in this case, still does not mean equal especially if the charater is not a spellcaster. Even if s/he is a spellcaster, it doesn't add to spells per day or spells known; it only adds to level-dependent variables, many of which have maximum values anyhow (10d6 damage, 5 magic missiles, d8+5 CLW).

AND- Half-Dragons are bazillions times stronger to begin with than a Dragon BL. They get 14(!!!!!!!!!!!) attribute extra attribute points at the start, and all the other goodies that go along with "pre-paying". Interestingly, the BL doesn't get breath weapon until 16th level and Nat Armor +2 (instead of +4 IIRC) at 12th; so even after both have paid the +3, the Half- is heaps better than the BL.

BTW- This all came about because we had started to start a campaign where the PCs were all Bloodline something. We decided we might start again so I dug out my notes and notied that if the characters live past 3rd level, their racial choices will actually be hindering them. There aren't ECL +1 creatures that I know of that get as little as BL does by 3rd.