Bloodsand Arena/Dark Sun questions

[TheClone]

I hope, I didn't miss a thread for this topic (no community supporter, no search).

I finally got my copy of bloodsand arena and I am really looking forward to DMing it with the guys. It sounds promising to, especially to get some Athas feeling into my players. But I have some things which aren't clear to me. Maybe some of you guys can help me.

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- The basics about magic and defiling is explained in the intro and I remember some things from the books. But how do witnesses react to an arcane mage practicing preserving magic? There are encounters in the arena and other where the elf traders or even just citizens might observe the arcane characters casting spells. Will they just nsult him or boo or ignore that or take even worse actions?

- How many coins are there in the arena when fighting the elves? Are there 5 and that is what is meant by "five rounds"?

- Where are those Jhakar trapjaws (last page of part one) used?
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[lin_fusan]

There was a thread about Free RPG Day in general which discussed the adventure in passing, but not in detail...

My answers:

Spoiler

1) The read-aloud text block mentions 7 coins.

When the encounter mentions "rounds", I assume it actually means 1 D&D game round.

2) The encounter mentions that the Jhakar trapjaws enter through a gate after round 1. The map only has one gate, and it is located behind the elves's start area, so I assume that is where they emerge.

3) As for the negative reaction toward arcane magic, I wished the adventure had set aside some info on how to address its use.

Personally, I wouldn't want to punish players for using their abilities, but the background info makes a big deal about arcane power, especially in connection with the sorcerer kings (and one of the sample player characters even has a pact bond with one!), that I don't want to ignore that aspect of Athasian life.

And since the village/town is part of the free city-state of Tyr, I would imagine that any connection to a sorcerer king would be negative, but as to how that would play in-game, I have no idea.

 

[TheClone]

I feared it would come to that. So I didn't see that in the text, dammit. Thanks for your answer.

I'm also unsure about the magic in public thing. I don't want to forgo that part, because it's a really unique thing about Dark Sun. And I too don't want to force the arcanists to not use their powers at all (I guess some of the fights will be too difficult to do that). But bluffing seems also to be out of the way.

On thing that is sure, is if the player of the warlock defiles in public, this will be a big deal. I won't go over that unnoticed. Although I'm not sure if bystanders (or even non-arcane PCs) would recognize the defiling by the pain they receive.

For normal use of magic, I might stick to insults and stuff, but no violence against the player. Maybe I'll do some more for using magic for really trivial things (haven't checked what powers they have, whether they can use magic that way). I hope that'll point in the right direction. Maybe I'll have some boos and stuff for dailies or so or even a -1 to something, if using the magic seems unnecessary. Like casting a spell on an amlost dead enemy.

If anyone else can comment on that, I'll be happy.

 

[lin_fusan]

I had the exact same questions! I think it's the fault of the adventure that the information is so piecemeal like that. And it still doesn't have any real info about "survival days"!

I don't think the designers wanted arcane magic to be a drawback mechanically, since that would detract from 4e's design philosophy. That's probably why the D&D Dark Sun Encounters all have taken place out in the wild away from civilization.

I'm guessing that arcane powers are allowed in the arena, much like how wrestling promotes "bad guys" in order to drum up interest and give people a reason to come see the "bad guys" win or lose. I can even imagine gladiatorial trainers encouraging an occasional defiling to get the audience to hate the caster and bet even more money against him or her!

 

[TheClone]

Yep that'll be a problem, because without that info the negative impact of the longer router from Tyr is unclear. I guess I'll just grant the PCs two days. If I remember correctly failing on the skill challenges imposes one additional day and three days. So if the fail for one additional day, it doesn't matter. but if they fail for the three days, they loose a surge and if they fail two times they loose two. That should be okay. Because loosing too much surges would be difficult. The PCs have to fight the elf clan and before they fight in the arena, they only may have a short rest (although the arena fight shouldn't cost any hitpoints).

Concerning leaving out the negative effects of using arcane magic you may be right. It somehow feels like that. But maybe they just forgot (which shouldn't happen with such an important thing) or had to leave it out due to space requirements (although one sentence for arena fights and one for the fight in the barracks quarter should have been enough). I think of this a severe "bug", but it surely won't ruin the adventure. You just have to ask around.

Concerning asking, I learned a friend has the 2nd edition Dark Sun books and I discussed with him. He said using magic really is severe. The mob is likely to kill any spellcaster once they have formed and are marching with forks and torches (do they use torches in Dark Sun with almost no trees available? Maybe metal ones). After that I found a way to handle it:

Taking a look at the PCs for the adventure, the shaman (primal spellcaster) and battlemind (psionic) have powers that deal normal or psychic damage, nothing else. The shaman even may even conjure his spirit companion. So the magical effect seems not be that important to distinguish the magic power surge. But the damage type may be a unique property, by that non-spellcasting bystanders like spectators in the arena can identify the power source. So my rule is this: Non-defiling magic that deals no, normal or psychic damage is identified as non-arcane magic by people that are untrained in arcana (trained persons may roll). Any other damage type wil lbe automatically regarded as arcane magic, regardless of what it really is by arcana-untrained people. Defiling magic is recognized by people nearby suffering pain (thy may try to bluff, if they like) and plants shriveling and is thereby automatically recognized (except if all suffering persons nearby make their bluff check, you should use a fixed DC for that to avoid too much rolls). Seeing defiling magic automatically makes all npcs hostile toward that person. All other arcane magic makes them just unfriendly. That may very b situation.

I think that rule should work out fine. It will allow arcanists to use some of their powers and not be helpless, but there will also be up to severe consequences if they do it wrong.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

most folk cna't tell arcane from primal or other effects, except maybe for things they wouldn't expect like a Wall of Ice
defiling they damn well can see and will kill on sight

the wizard in the adventure uses ILLUSION powers, these are very likely to be indistinguishable form psionics for most folks

way I'd say it, is to use Bluff or Arcana vs Arcana/Insight to see if it's arcane or not.

people expect fire, psychic, force, earth/stone kind of powers from priests (primal in 4th ed rather than elemental), templars, psions etc

 

[DogBackward]

From what I've heard, you'd only really need a Bluff check using arcane powers if you're being observed by a templar, another mage or the like. Most normal folk won't be able to tell one from the other, without training.

Also, during the coin encounter, just as a general interesting thing to do:
Have at least a few minions, or the boss-man (Gith or Elf, whichever ends up getting used) wait within a move action of the players' chest until round 4-5. Then have him get there, and spend the last 2 rounds doing nothing but the following:
Minor: Take coin from chest
Free: Drop coin
Repeat as much as possible

It's a great tactic, since only coins actually in the chest count. Your players'll get a little frantic, and either abandon their actions to retrieve their coins, or try the same tactic. Either way, it's a good way to spice things up near the end. Also, I had the leader make a combined stealth/bluff check to remove a few coins again after the gong sounded. It's not cheating if you don't get caught, right?

 

[Wik]

most folk cna't tell arcane from primal or other effects,

Fully agree on this. Which is why, in my campaigns, Primal powers (or druids and clerics, in 2e) were hated just as much as wizards - the public can't tell them apart.

The house rule I already have in place is that arcane/primal characters that use magic are goign to attract a crowd. However, they can make at-will powers appear, for all intents and purposes, to be psionic. So, if there's a crowd, such characters will be limited to at-wills.

Sucks, but it really helps the flavour of the setting... besides, in my opinion, fully half of all Dark Sun PCs should be martial, anyway.

 

[Tzarevitch]

The only power sources in athas which are generally respected are martial and psionic. Primal power users tend to be crazy nutjobs who are tolerated if they make themselves useful. Preservers survive by mimicing one of those types or not casting when they can be seen. In the setting, preserving is noticeabe if you know what to look for (there is an indistinct shimmer effect that would probably require a spot check unless you do something to distract viewers). Defiling is obvious to everyone. (Plants turn to ash and higher lifeforms feel sick.) It would require extreme measures to conceal it, if that is even possible.

 

[vic20]

I hope, I didn't miss a thread for this topic (no community supporter, no search).

Sorry I don't have anything to say regarding your question, but I want to point out that even though I have a Community Supporter account, the best way to search ENWorld is, in my opinion, to simply use Google search, specifying this site.

For example, using this search term:

site:enworld.org bloodsand arena

generates this result:

site:enworld.org bloodsand arena - Google Search

This very thread is the first hit in the list.

Hope this helps...