BLUE ROSE Returns, Championing Diversity & Inclusiveness

Back in 2005, Green Ronin published a roleplaying game called Blue Rose. It was designed by Jeremy Crawford (yep, him who works at WotC on D&D 5E), Steve "Mutants & Masterminds" Kenson (that's his actual middle name), Dawn Elliot, and John Snead, and was billed as a "romantic fantasy" game, of the genre for whom Tamora Pierce, Mercedes Lackey, and Jacqueline Carey are known. It used the True20 System, which was a slimmed-down, modified version of the d20 System, and won multiple ENnies. And now it's back!

This time round, the game will be using the Adventure Game Engine, which powers the Dragon Age RPG, and will be funded via a Kickstarter launching in April. One of Green Ronin's reasons for bringing it back is that the game tackled a number of diversity and inclusiveness related issues, and those issues are very much the subject of intense - and often unpleasant - debate and conflict today.

You can click on the cover image below for the full announcement from Green Ronin's Chris Pramas.

​

What's Romantic Fantasy? It's "a subgenre of fantasy fiction, describing a fantasy story using many of the elements and conventions of the romance genre". According to Wikipedia, the genre's focus is on social, political, and romantic relationships.

 

[TreChriron]

I was hoping for more discussion of the game. :-(

Some people on both sides of these arguments are bad examples of understanding, tolerance and practicing liberty. Free speech means you get to say what you want. That can be hurtful, ignorant and divisive or encouraging, inspiring and helpful. Free speech is both. Of course you don't get a guarantee of an audience, however if anyone can post here, then everyone is the audience. You can't ask some people to "shut up and go to a street corner" because their opinions bother you. Being inclusive is not code for "be nice to my particular group" or worse "the way I think is the right way to think".

If you really want people to be more inclusive, you have to fight for it. This is the hallmark of free speech. It's designed to encourage debate. Discussion opens people's minds. It exposes them to ideas that are "alien" to them. We all have a perfect echo chamber in our minds. The goal with free speech is to enlighten those who don't see things from your perspective. For example: Kiraya want's to create a "safe place for LGBTQ+" gamers (as per your signature). However, is that what you really want? How can you possibly share your thoughts on being a LGBTQ gamer, build an inclusive environment, and bring awareness to issues in a "safe place"? I would posit you don't want a safe place if you really want to be a force for change. I don't care if you think homophobes and misogynists suck. I already know that. What I DO care about is your opinion. How you game. What I can do to make my games appeal to you. What I want to see is you being a part of the community at large. The community is never going to be served by stifling opinions or segregation. Free speech is a cornerstone of an inclusive community. If you want to be heard you have to listen.

I would encourage everyone to seek first to understand, then to be understood (Stephen Covery - wise man . Some people are scared of things they don't understand. This is actually a common human condition. If you have never talked to a "different" person (someone outside your "norm"), that person could be seen as terrifying. Look at nearly every conservative in the US who speaks out against gay marriage until one of their children comes out as gay. Then all of a sudden they are for gay marriage. Why? It's easy to dehumanize something that is not personal. The point of free speech, open debate and our exchanges are just for that! To make our relationships personal. You also have to be prepared that some people are simply not going to agree. That's ok. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water! Focus on the good. Focus on the progress. Don't silence people or take away free speech or censor things. That's the wrong direction. Keep speaking out. Keep saying what you want to say. Be inclusive. Lead by example. Keep fighting for what you believe in. That spirit, that open exchange, that liberty... is what creates a strong inclusive community.

Everyone deserves a voice. If you get an audience so does the person you don't agree with. This is liberty.

 

[KirayaTiDrekan]

Regarding settings, Dragonlance is, to me, a romantic fantasy setting. It doesn't have the innate, almost psychic magic of other settings in the genre, but it does have the focus on relationships (political, romantic, and social).

The original Blue Rose (True20 version) didn't use game mechanics to deal with those sorts of interactions (as I recall, I only got the chance to GM it once and that didn't last very long), relying on the setting and character backgrounds to convey relationships and their importance.

 

[Morrus]

I was hoping for more discussion of the game. :-(

Some people on both sides of these arguments are bad examples of understanding, tolerance and practicing liberty. Free speech means you get to say what you want. That can be hurtful, ignorant and divisive or encouraging, inspiring and helpful. Free speech is both. Of course you don't get a guarantee of an audience, however if anyone can post here, then everyone is the audience. You can't ask some people to "shut up and go to a street corner" because their opinions bother you. Being inclusive is not code for "be nice to my particular group" or worse "the way I think is the right way to think".

If you really want people to be more inclusive, you have to fight for it. This is the hallmark of free speech. It's designed to encourage debate. Discussion opens people's minds. It exposes them to ideas that are "alien" to them. We all have a perfect echo chamber in our minds. The goal with free speech is to enlighten those who don't see things from your perspective. For example: Kiraya want's to create a "safe place for LGBTQ+" gamers (as per your signature). However, is that what you really want? How can you possibly share your thoughts on being a LGBTQ gamer, build an inclusive environment, and bring awareness to issues in a "safe place"? I would posit you don't want a safe place if you really want to be a force for change. I don't care if you think homophobes and misogynists suck. I already know that. What I DO care about is your opinion. How you game. What I can do to make my games appeal to you. What I want to see is you being a part of the community at large. The community is never going to be served by stifling opinions or segregation. Free speech is a cornerstone of an inclusive community. If you want to be heard you have to listen.

I would encourage everyone to seek first to understand, then to be understood (Stephen Covery - wise man . Some people are scared of things they don't understand. This is actually a common human condition. If you have never talked to a "different" person (someone outside your "norm"), that person could be seen as terrifying. Look at nearly every conservative in the US who speaks out against gay marriage until one of their children comes out as gay. Then all of a sudden they are for gay marriage. Why? It's easy to dehumanize something that is not personal. The point of free speech, open debate and our exchanges are just for that! To make our relationships personal. You also have to be prepared that some people are simply not going to agree. That's ok. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water! Focus on the good. Focus on the progress. Don't silence people or take away free speech or censor things. That's the wrong direction. Keep speaking out. Keep saying what you want to say. Be inclusive. Lead by example. Keep fighting for what you believe in. That spirit, that open exchange, that liberty... is what creates a strong inclusive community.

Everyone deserves a voice. If you get an audience so does the person you don't agree with. This is liberty.

That's quite the civics essay! But I don't think anybody here or from Green Ronin has tried to say that people don't have the right to say what they want, or attacked the notion of free speech. The only person who has is me, who has asked people to keep certain topics off EN World. If you want more discussion of the game, feel free to discuss the game!

 

[TreChriron]

That's quite the civics essay! But I don't think anybody here or from Green Ronin has tried to say that people don't have the right to say what they want, or attacked the notion of free speech. The only person who has is me, who has asked people to keep certain topics off EN World. If you want more discussion of the game, feel free to discuss the game!

I like Blue Rose. I think it's a creative setting and I look forward to what they do with it and the AGE system (which know very little about).

I would love to see some links and discussion of the AGE system, and how people who have played it feel it will support the themes in Blue Rose.

For example, in the True 20 version there is conviction. I think it was a cool "willpower" type mechanic that spoke more to "what I believe" than "I dig deep and grit my teeth" Also, the virtues and vices generally modeled after the 7 sins and virtues. You could earn conviction for following your virtue and more if you succumbed to your vice! I imagine some of this would be supported in the new game. Are there mechanics like this in Dragon Age?

 

[Allensh]

I also hope this wasn't their big announcement for the AGE system. Blue Rose is a nice setting, but it doesn't seem like that big news. I own all the books and still run into several people that when they see the books in a store are unaware it has been around for awhile. It wasn't that big of a game when it first came out.

It isn't. The other announcement comes later.

Allen

 

[Allensh]

I liked the original game. True20 was refreshing take on the d20 mechanics. I'm not as familiar with AGE system, but I think I need to pick up some Dragon Age when the hardcover comes out.

Anyone played AGE? Thoughts?

It's my favorite system, even over D&D 5e, which I do really like. I love the stunt system, I love the way it handles classes, I enjoy the Dragon Age setting and magic system and I am looking forward to Blue Rose as well.

Allen

 

[redrick]

If you really want people to be more inclusive, you have to fight for it. This is the hallmark of free speech. It's designed to encourage debate. Discussion opens people's minds. It exposes them to ideas that are "alien" to them. We all have a perfect echo chamber in our minds. The goal with free speech is to enlighten those who don't see things from your perspective. For example: Kiraya want's to create a "safe place for LGBTQ+" gamers (as per your signature). However, is that what you really want? How can you possibly share your thoughts on being a LGBTQ gamer, build an inclusive environment, and bring awareness to issues in a "safe place"? I would posit you don't want a safe place if you really want to be a force for change. I don't care if you think homophobes and misogynists suck. I already know that. What I DO care about is your opinion. How you game. What I can do to make my games appeal to you. What I want to see is you being a part of the community at large. The community is never going to be served by stifling opinions or segregation. Free speech is a cornerstone of an inclusive community. If you want to be heard you have to listen.

Fair points, but it's important to note that a "safe space" and "being a force for change" aren't really meant to address the same thing. The need for defined safe spaces is because, unfortunately, a lot of spaces are, by default, not safe for all people. We create safe spaces because everyone deserves to have a place where they can relax and not get slammed by misogynistic, racist, homophobic or transphobic or any other form of targeted, hateful speech or behavior. And yeah, we do that by shutting down a certain aspect of free speech in those spaces, and, as a result, so-called "safe spaces" are probably not places that folks who really want to exercise their right to free speech by saying bigoted things are going to hang out. Which makes them bad places to go about going all "force for change" up in these individuals' faces.

But folks can (and do!) choose to walk out of that safe space and into the den of the lion to engage in all sorts of debate and conversation. And, while I wouldn't exactly call EnWorld the den of the lion, I'd say that seems to be what Kiraya was doing earlier. Articulating the value of active inclusion in our hobby.

 

[TreChriron]

Fair points...

But folks can (and do!) choose to walk out of that safe space and into the den of the lion to engage in all sorts of debate and conversation. And, while I wouldn't exactly call EnWorld the den of the lion, I'd say that seems to be what Kiraya was doing earlier. Articulating the value of active inclusion in our hobby.

Good (and understood).

 

[Ace]

That assumes that "apolitical" is something that is actually common in RPGs. Most RPG settings have underlying political influences and assumptions. Not being aware of these assumptions does not mean they not exist.

That assumes that "apolitical" is something that is actually common in RPGs. Most RPG settings have underlying political influences and assumptions. Not being aware of these assumptions does not mean they not exist.

That's true enough

Think of this as a variant of O'Sullivan's First Law , All organizations that are not actually right-wing will over time become left-wing. If you don't step in covert Leftism creeping into games of the hobby, it will zerg-creep the hobby far to the Left and co-opt it as a tool for Progressivism and say D&D 7 will end up Race with Us rather than a game For a large number of gamer's ,a little is enough and many of us simply don't want that to happen.

Let me use an example of an existing game, Dark Heresy , a fairly apolitical description might be "In the 41st Millennium the players play Inquisitors of the God Emperor who seeks out Chaos, Heresy and protect the Empire using any means necessary" and let the reader figure out whether torture and murder are appropriate in game, how they feel about these things in real life and avoid unnecessary commentary .

And my group plays this game regularly, we don't do those things in game but we also don't need some scold telling us games are wrong and those cultural slips to PC are quite common. I want the larger forces of the hobby to remain open to Right and Left ideas alike and unless entrysim is quashed, it won't. The hobby will go on no matter what do to the low cost of entry but its fine the way it is and political correctness getting involved is not welcome,

And note I don't see Blue Rose doing this at all, its overt, on the cover and clear. I find Aldis a bit silly in places, I actually thought your capsule review was pretty spot on however and a great example of politically neutral without value judgement that I was aiming for,

And yes I did notice a bit of snark about family formation , that's fine. Its fact based, as that's how retirement was handled in most of history.

 

[Doctor Futurity]

I'm always on the lookout for new and interesting mechanics, especially if they can be stolen for use in D&D.


Chris Pramas has a really unfortunate habit of using the "if you disagree with me then #$%^ you" formula to make his points. Personally I find it rankles (a lot), even when I'm in full agreement with what he's saying.

Interesting...and quite true. A shame really, because I think Blue Rose can and should stand on its own merits as a "romantic fantasy" game that might emphasize the social/romantic elements over sticking swords in people (although ironically those gals I know such as my wife would prefer an equal mix of both). Touting it as a tool of social justice clouds the waters on what it really is: which is a game that may get more widespread acceptance thanks to an already existing shift in our general culture as hobbyists, rather than as the instrument of that change.