Bluff as feint - do they know?

[Hypersmurf]

Ignoring Haste, Quicker than the Eye, Gladiators, etc...

Use of the Bluff skill to feint in combat is a standard action. Thus, the followup attack usually occurs in the next round - after the opponent has had a chance to react.

But does the opponent know he's been successfully bluffed? I can picture a high-level rogue executing a Bluff, and his high-level barbarian opponent (with traditionally superb Sense Motive modifier ) failing the opposed roll. Now, the barbarian knows there aren't many ways the rogue can Sneak Attack him - he's got Uncanny Dodge and the Blindfight feat - but he's low on hit points after fighting off the Iron Golem, and he knows a Sneak Attack could finish him off. His best option - unless he knows he can take the rogue down this round - is to make a double move withdrawal around a corner or behind an obstacle, so that the rogue can't reach him with a charge, and the feint is wasted.

But does he know he's about to be denied his Dex bonus next round?

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

But does he know he's about to be denied his Dex bonus next round?

I would most certainly have to say, quite emphatically, "No". That would defeat the entire purpose of the skill, especially so when the barbarian failed his Sense Motive check in the first place. Besides, the feint itself may have been a diversionary attack, one that the target would no doubt perceive as yet another failed attack, and nothing more than that.

 

[AuraSeer]

Failing the Sense Motive check means you are taken in by the feint. You definitely do not know that you've been bluffed. At best you figure it out a few seconds later, after you get hit by a blow you expected to dodge.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

What kreynolds and AuraSeer said.

Reacting to a faint would be meta-gaming.

 

[greycastle]

personally i think that if the sense motive succeeds you know it's a feint, and you don't fall for it...they dont' get any bonuses, and you can do what ever it is you want to do.

if you fail your sense motive you lunge left, they easily move aside and slash your side...

 

[Murrdox]

I can almost see this both ways. If you withdraw from combat, it's because you generally are afraid of the Rogue, and don't want to get stabbed. You shouldn't withdraw because you know you've been feinted, and thus want to avoid the sneak attack.

Of course, it's possible with the nature of the feint that you SEE the rogue coming at you, but he's dodging around and moving in such an odd way that you don't know exactly how he's coming at you... which could mean you would KNOW you're being confused by the rogue's tactics, and withdraw as a result.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

which could mean you would KNOW you're being confused by the rogue's tactics, and withdraw as a result.

No, absolutely not. You failed your Sense Motive check, and you think he just attacked you.

Rogues are always hopping around the battlefield, it would mean you'd retreat from them the whole time (or just when he feints, which would be metagaming, and should always result in a messy death).

 

[Belbarrus]

This is the way I would handle it:

The DM determines that the NPC Rogue is going to 'feint' agains the PC. The DM rolls the Bluff vs PC Sense Motive secretly.

If the Bluff fails, the DM informs the character right then that they noticed the Rogue was trying to perform a feint.

If the Bluff succeeds, the DM informs the player that the Rogue missed their attack. Then, on the Rogues next attack, the NPC makes an attack versus the PCs dexless AC and the

DM informs the player, "Last round the Rogue feinted and you failed to notice. This round he takes advantage of your lowered defenses and you are denied your Desterity bonus."

If this action was happening between players (who could hear each other's combat intentions), I would probably have the Rogue player write a quick note, or give some signal to indicate that they were trying to Feint.

 

[Pielorinho]

I agree with Belbarrus (although I'd probably try to avoid using gamespeak -- on a successful feint, I'd describe the rogue's next action like, "Much faster than you were expecting, the rogue recovers from ducking under your blow, and before you realize it, she's buried her dagger in your belly. Yowza! 22 points of damage!"

No, the person doesn't know whether they were faked out or not. On the bright side, people might start getting totally paranoid when the rogue misses them in combat .

Daniel