Bluff at Range
- Thread starter LokiDR
- Start date
PHB p 64
Bluff Skill Description
Feinting in Combat
You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in combat so that he can't dodge your attack effectively. Doing so is a miscellaneous standard action taht does not draw an attack of opportunity. If you are successful, the next attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any). This attack must be made on or before you next turn. Feinting in this way against a nonhumaniod is difficult because it's harder to read a strange creature's body language; you suffer a -4 penalty. Against a creature of Animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it's even harder; you suffer a -8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it's impossible.
It sounds like what the Rogue is doing is perfectly fine as long as he understands that feinting is a standard action: he cannot attack that round unless he has an extra partial action like that granted by Haste or the defender incurs an attack of opportunity. Even if he uses the full attack option the next round, only the first attack would add sneak attack damage if it hit.
[Edit] Forgot you wanted to know about the ranged attack. There is nothing that says the rogue can't do it, but I would rule that the creature must have the rogue in his primary field of vision, not his peripheral vision (90 degree cone facing forward).
Bluff Skill Description
Feinting in Combat
You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in combat so that he can't dodge your attack effectively. Doing so is a miscellaneous standard action taht does not draw an attack of opportunity. If you are successful, the next attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any). This attack must be made on or before you next turn. Feinting in this way against a nonhumaniod is difficult because it's harder to read a strange creature's body language; you suffer a -4 penalty. Against a creature of Animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it's even harder; you suffer a -8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it's impossible.
It sounds like what the Rogue is doing is perfectly fine as long as he understands that feinting is a standard action: he cannot attack that round unless he has an extra partial action like that granted by Haste or the defender incurs an attack of opportunity. Even if he uses the full attack option the next round, only the first attack would add sneak attack damage if it hit.
[Edit] Forgot you wanted to know about the ranged attack. There is nothing that says the rogue can't do it, but I would rule that the creature must have the rogue in his primary field of vision, not his peripheral vision (90 degree cone facing forward).
Last edited:
ForceUser@Home
First Post
I was just wondering this myself; it's eerie 
I have a player in my group who doesn't like melee at all, and she's playing a rogue. I expect her to ask me this sort of question. My sense is that even though it seems cheesy, I see no reason why you couldn't bluff a foe at up to 30 feet, and then sneak attack on your next action.
To the above poster: remember, bluffing is a standard action! Unless the character is hasted, he has to set up the bluff in one round, and follow through with the sneak attack the round after. This is hardly overpowering when compared to the melee rogue who, at higher levels, might pull off three or four sneak attacks a round while flanking! A bluff only works for one attack, not a round of attacks!
I have a player in my group who doesn't like melee at all, and she's playing a rogue. I expect her to ask me this sort of question. My sense is that even though it seems cheesy, I see no reason why you couldn't bluff a foe at up to 30 feet, and then sneak attack on your next action.
To the above poster: remember, bluffing is a standard action! Unless the character is hasted, he has to set up the bluff in one round, and follow through with the sneak attack the round after. This is hardly overpowering when compared to the melee rogue who, at higher levels, might pull off three or four sneak attacks a round while flanking! A bluff only works for one attack, not a round of attacks!
drowdude said:The limit to bluffing at range is 30'.
(I know that is right... but dont ask me to point you to where it says that
)
You can bluff at any range you want, but the limit for sneak attacks is 30 feet.
Re the original question: there's also only so many times you can bluff someone. I'd stick a cumulative -10 penalty on each bluff attempt in the one encounter.
Tobold Hornblower
First Post
Felix said, "There is nothing that says the rogue can't do it, but I would rule that the creature must have the rogue in his primary field of vision, not his peripheral vision (90 degree cone facing forward)."
Felix, there is no 'facing' or 'forward' in d20. There is no 'peripheral vision'. Characters are looking in all directions simultaniously.
If a rogue is NOT in an opponents 'primary field of vision' he must be hidden around the corner or behind something. In such a case, the rogue can get a sneak attack if his Hide beats the opponents Spot.
There is nothing in the rules that prevents a rogue from Bluffing any opponent that can see her, and then getting a Sneak Attack from withing 30'.
A rogues sneak attack damage is so piddly compared to a Wizards Fireball, that there is no reason to go out of your way to take occasional few d6 away from the poor rogue.
Felix, there is no 'facing' or 'forward' in d20. There is no 'peripheral vision'. Characters are looking in all directions simultaniously.
If a rogue is NOT in an opponents 'primary field of vision' he must be hidden around the corner or behind something. In such a case, the rogue can get a sneak attack if his Hide beats the opponents Spot.
There is nothing in the rules that prevents a rogue from Bluffing any opponent that can see her, and then getting a Sneak Attack from withing 30'.
A rogues sneak attack damage is so piddly compared to a Wizards Fireball, that there is no reason to go out of your way to take occasional few d6 away from the poor rogue.
I beg to disagree. In this game, the 5th level rouge can sneak attack at least 3 time per fight. The 6th wizard can, at most, fireball three times a day. If there are two combats in a day, rouge is at 18d6, assuming they all hit. Wizard is at 15d6 if he takes only fireball.
I also have a higher level character (13 I think) who has +7d6 per sneak attack, and he attacks 5 times in the opening round. 35d6 is not to be scoffed at. I think the rouge sneak attack can be very powerfull, and I don't want the play to just bluff over and over.
Maybe the -10 cumulative penalty. I was doing -4 cumlative, but that can change
I am the DM after all.Tobold Hornblower
First Post
Hi LokiDR,
Certainly different situations can cause the value of sneak attack to vary, and your encounters may differ from the usual fights both in the campaign I run and the one I play.
An encounter with a single tough opponent tends to end in two or three rounds. The rogue often gets a sneak attack in the first round, but rarely would he get a chance to bluff and get another one, as the baddy is already dead or fleeing by round three.
An encounter with multiple wimpy creatures lets the mage get several creatures in the area of effect of his fireball, making his d6s really kick but. When the rogue gets the sneak attack, the wimp is usually unconscious after the normal attack damage, and the sneak attack is superfilous.
We also seem to have many opponents that are imune to critical hits, against which the fireball or multiple warhead magic missiles take nasty toll, but the rogue gets no sneak attack.
If your Rogue is outshining the other party members, you could change your encounters: use more creatures immune to critical hits; use creatures that can surprise the party from ambush, then run to surprise again later; or use a large gang of low CR opponents.
Certainly different situations can cause the value of sneak attack to vary, and your encounters may differ from the usual fights both in the campaign I run and the one I play.
An encounter with a single tough opponent tends to end in two or three rounds. The rogue often gets a sneak attack in the first round, but rarely would he get a chance to bluff and get another one, as the baddy is already dead or fleeing by round three.
An encounter with multiple wimpy creatures lets the mage get several creatures in the area of effect of his fireball, making his d6s really kick but. When the rogue gets the sneak attack, the wimp is usually unconscious after the normal attack damage, and the sneak attack is superfilous.
We also seem to have many opponents that are imune to critical hits, against which the fireball or multiple warhead magic missiles take nasty toll, but the rogue gets no sneak attack.
If your Rogue is outshining the other party members, you could change your encounters: use more creatures immune to critical hits; use creatures that can surprise the party from ambush, then run to surprise again later; or use a large gang of low CR opponents.
