Bluff Check, Feinting in Combat, and Rogues

[Roland Delacroix]

Are there any other good feats that work well with the combat reflexes, expert tactitican, quicker than the eye for enhancing? I'm about to start a rogue/fighter with combat reflexes with an eye for expert tactician by 3rd level. Improved initiative is high on my list of priorities. I plan on using a reach weapon to help the combat reflexes kick in.

Any other good ideas/uses?

Take a look at the Sultans of Smack thread. I have a ninja who can kill most anyone in the partial round using those feats, and a few others. Its a feat based combo too so I don't think you need any special classes, it just works better with some.

 

[Weeble]

Are there any other good feats that work well with the combat reflexes, expert tactitican, quicker than the eye for enhancing? I'm about to start a rogue/fighter with combat reflexes with an eye for expert tactician by 3rd level. Improved initiative is high on my list of priorities. I plan on using a reach weapon to help the combat reflexes kick in.

Any other good ideas/uses?

Hey Stone,
I too have been playing a rogue/fighter for quite some time, but have gone the route of ranged combat leaving out some of the Feats you had mentioned. I will say Imp. Init. is great for the first round. If my character surprises the first round I get a Sneak Attack. Then, if I win Init., I get two more Sneaks with Rapid Shot. I have high MS and Hide skills (don't forget to balance out skills with feats to tighten up combat) which helps me get close to my enemy (within 30ft) before I'm noticed. For hand to hand combat for a Rogue, get Spring Attack. You have to get the ____ out after you do damage, or you'll get pummeled.

 

[Al]

In both cases the Rogue would have backup (the rest of the party) and he would have gotten away after his first Sneak Attack. Maybe your Rogues stand toe-to-toe with Fighters but mine hit and run.

The first part is irrelevant for a direct comparison- wouldn't the fighter have the backup of the rest of his party? I thought that the fundamental premise is that Bluffing is combat makes the rogue too good vis-a-vis the fighter.
The hit and run tactic is again irrelevant to the topic: the whole point of this topic is the utility of feinting, not the relative comparison between the rogue and the fighter. Even if it were, the analysis is little different. After all, only a very stupid fighter doesn't have a missile weapon.

Funny, I never said a Rogue could stand up to a Fighter in a normal combat. I used an example of how the Rogue could Bluff/Sneak Attack and possibly get away or help out party members with the damage totals. Do you all play solo campaigns?

Perhaps not directly, but it was implicit. And dr_nukem actually stated that 'it all evens out in the end', indicating a direct parity between the power of the fighter and bluffing rogue in combat.

Once is all a Rogue should need. As a Rogue, I would quickly remove my person from the situation and let my party chime in.

Unless your victim is both 1st level and has poor hit dice, once is unlikely to be 'all a Rogue should need'. At top level, how is 10d6 sneak attack damage (35 average) going to floor a 19d10+10+20xCon bonus fighter?...or even a 19d4+4+20xCon bonus wizard?

On an advisory note, have you considered the sniping rules for your fighter/rogue. -20 to Hide and you shoot and remain hidden. Simply grab a Cloak of Elvenkind, Shadow Armour and you've negated the penalty. Sneak attacks every shot...

 

[Weeble]

you are making inferences, which is pointless

 

[Darklone]

I too have been playing a rogue/fighter for quite some time, but have gone the route of ranged combat leaving out some of the Feats you had mentioned. I will say Imp. Init. is great for the first round. If my character surprises the first round I get a Sneak Attack. Then, if I win Init., I get two more Sneaks with Rapid Shot. I have high MS and Hide skills (don't forget to balance out skills with feats to tighten up combat) which helps me get close to my enemy (within 30ft) before I'm noticed. For hand to hand combat for a Rogue, get Spring Attack. You have to get the ____ out after you do damage, or you'll get pummeled.

Speaks, check the Players Guide for a feat that allows you to stop an enemy that charges or runs at you... Combined with the abovementioned feats and spring attack, the enemies will have a hard time to hit you at all.

 

[Al]

you are making inferences, which is pointless

Not really. I am merely deducing the most likely meaning of vague statements. If you meant something else, I apologise, although it would be useful if you clarified your position.

 

[Speaks With Stone]

<Speaks, check the Players Guide for a feat that allows you to stop an enemy that charges or runs at you... Combined with the abovementioned feats and spring attack, the enemies will have a hard time to hit you at all.>

If I get an Aoo on someone moving through the outer rim of the reach weapon, then I don't think I can get a second Aoo on that person when they charge into my space - even if I use a spiked chain that allows me to threaten the area. Isn't the rule just one Aoo per target per round?

 

[Weeble]

Not really. I am merely deducing the most likely meaning of vague statements. If you meant something else, I apologise, although it would be useful if you clarified your position.

well, take everyone else opinion on what i said, or the majority anyhow.

 

[kreynolds]

[BIsn't the rule just one Aoo per target per round? [/B]

Yes.

 

[Weeble]

Yes.

depending on feats, no