Bluff/Sense motive and Spot/Listen

[LordAidite]

Question 1:

Is is possible to bluff or use sense motive on another PC? Like the rogue got greedy and took a little bit of gold out of your pocket. You notice the gold is missing and confront the rogue. Now "out of game" you know the rogue did it. But your character only suspects. I remember somebody telling me that these skills can't be used against PCs but to me that just doesn't make sense.


Question 2:

In my current adventure, the party is all level 2. Now I know the rules of spot and listen. The whole DC= 10+1per 10 feet and stuff. But at what point do you start doing the +1? Lets say that spot isn't one of your class skill and you have no ranks in it. On an average roll you aren't going to see something 20 feet in front of you? Do you just assume that you can see something X number of feet in front of you unless its trying to advoid being seen?

 

[DM-Rocco]

It sucks, but you can't use sense motive or bluff on party, that is what the "role-playing" part of the game is for. Unfortunately, my rogue has a better bluff than I do, so it should be allowed.

As for Spot, you can see plenty 20 feet in front of you, but spot is for things like a hidden creature or a trap or a concealed pit. Even if you don't have ranks in it, you still get a spot check, in this case, it is just a wisdom roll.

 

[Crothian]

1) bluff can't be used against the PCs no matter who is doing it. I like that so the dice don't tell the players how to role play.

 

[LordAidite]

It sucks, but you can't use sense motive or bluff on party, that is what the "role-playing" part of the game is for. Unfortunately, my rogue has a better bluff than I do, so it should be allowed.

Hrm...maybe I can get the DM to make it as a house rule. My characters sense motive is awesome. Mine is not very good.

As for Spot, you can see plenty 20 feet in front of you, but spot is for things like a hidden creature or a trap or a concealed pit. Even if you don't have ranks in it, you still get a spot check, in this case, it is just a wisdom roll.

How its been happening lately is we don't see the blink dogs untill they are 30ish feet in front of us even though they are not actually trying to hide from us. Which doesn't leave you with time to prepare or even hide. Althought the archer's point blank shot does come in handy in this cases I guess.

 

[Crothian]

Hrm...maybe I can get the DM to make it as a house rule. My characters sense motive is awesome. Mine is not very good.

Then its okay to roleplay that you don't distrust him and use the meta game knoweldge that you know he stole from you.

 

[Corsair]

How its been happening lately is we don't see the blink dogs untill they are 30ish feet in front of us even though they are not actually trying to hide from us. Which doesn't leave you with time to prepare or even hide. Althought the archer's point blank shot does come in handy in this cases I guess.

Ask your DM to read up on Encounter Distances.

 

[Rystil Arden]

1) bluff can't be used against the PCs no matter who is doing it. I like that so the dice don't tell the players how to role play.

Though on the other hand, sometimes problems come across with the player who decides that his Barbarian is going to attack the Rogue for swiping that ruby that no one saw without telling the party about it, even though his character has no reason to suspect this. The Rogue's player points out calmly that there is no reason for the other player's character to know about the ruby and even offers to roll a Bluff check against the Barbarian's Sense Motive to decide, after which the Barbarian's player grumbles, waits to see if he wins the check, and then if he loses, announces that he doesn't need to abide by the roll because "Bluff doesn't work on PCs"

 

[Crothian]

Though on the other hand, sometimes problems come across with the player who decides that his Barbarian is going to attack the Rogue for swiping that ruby that no one saw without telling the party about it, even though his character has no reason to suspect this. The Rogue's player points out calmly that there is no reason for the other player's character to know about the ruby and even offers to roll a Bluff check against the Barbarian's Sense Motive to decide, after which the Barbarian's player grumbles, waits to see if he wins the check, and then if he loses, announces that he doesn't need to abide by the roll because "Bluff doesn't work on PCs"

but that wasn't the situation here. The guy said his character has a high sense motive, so its okay to act on out of game knowledge to represent the natural hunches the character would have.

 

[Rystil Arden]

but that wasn't the situation here. The guy said his character has a high sense motive, so its okay to act on out of game knowledge to represent the natural hunches the character would have.

Oh, absolutely. That's a great way to solve the problem of the player whose character has the higher Sense Motive. I was talking about the "Bluff can't be used against the PCs" rather than the part about using OOC knowledge to represent in-character Sense Motive.

 

[Crothian]

I get you. The important thing, I think, is to address this situation during character generation if you are going to have player verse player relations like this. Basiclaly just talk about how its going to be handled in the campaign.