Bo9S: Crusaders, duplicate manuevers, and the bag o' rats

[Nifft]

Ooh, that's even worse than my other idea for it, which was to pummel fellow party-members with unarmed strikes for non-lethal damage just before settling down for the night, healing all their lethal damage in the process.

If your Crusader had a -2 Strength penalty (say, were the subject of a ray of enfeeblement), he would deal at most one point of non-lethal. So it's still a winning proposition.

Stupidest battle cry evar: "Let's de-buff and heal!" :\

Cheers, -- N

 

[MarkB]

If your Crusader had a -2 Strength penalty (say, were the subject of a ray of enfeeblement), he would deal at most one point of non-lethal. So it's still a winning proposition.

It'd take a very good Ray, since his strength (without wearing his gauntlets of ogre power) is currently 24.

Stupidest battle cry evar: "Let's de-buff and heal!" :\

Cheers, -- N

"Hold still while I pummel you to life!"

 

[Nifft]

It'd take a very good Ray, since his strength (without wearing his gauntlets of ogre power) is currently 24.

So: bestow curse, mind switch with a weak Psion, magic jar with a weak Wizard, etc.

There's always a way.

Cheers, -- N

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yep, generalization error.

Ugh, I just thought of something else bad. Martial Spirit doesn't even say you have to deal damage. You could make melee touch attacks (using e.g. Stormguard Warrior's Combat Rhythm, if you can't justify just making plain vanilla melee touch attacks) all day.

Cheers, -- N

You're just healing TWO points of damage per attack, and if you want more than one attack, you're likely full attacking, thus leaving you open to the foe's full attack all to heal what an equivalent level cleric could with CLW, at the cost of your action. Is it really that broken, in practice? I'd still not allow it cause it's silly, but it doesn't seem so bad to me.

Ooh, that's even worse than my other idea for it, which was to pummel fellow party-members with unarmed strikes for non-lethal damage just before settling down for the night, healing all their lethal damage in the process.

Heh, this kinda reminds me of my idea when CArcane came out to have a Rogue with UMD use non-lethal sneak attacks on party members with cure minor wounds. Ah, did that one ever get shot down by the DM. Good times.

 

[Nifft]

You're just healing TWO points of damage per attack, and if you want more than one attack, you're likely full attacking, thus leaving you open to the foe's full attack all to heal what an equivalent level cleric could with CLW, at the cost of your action. Is it really that broken, in practice? I'd still not allow it cause it's silly, but it doesn't seem so bad to me.

If the opponent is a genuine opponent, it's not. We're talking about cases where this specific stance can be abused... like those times when you're beating up is NORMALLY someone you'd consider an ally.

As long as you have two friend, you can heal them both.

Cheers, -- N

 

[moritheil]

Plus they count for different prerequisites.

Yup. This, to me, is the most important distinction - you're not really making a choice between the two based on nuances so much as choosing what you are qualifying for in the future.

 

[dirkformica]

Ugh, I just thought of something else bad. Martial Spirit doesn't even say you have to deal damage. You could make melee touch attacks (using e.g. Stormguard Warrior's Combat Rhythm, if you can't justify just making plain vanilla melee touch attacks) all day.

Cheers, -- N

Okay everyone, it's time to heal up. Yay! I love playing patty-cake!

 

[calighis]

I would allow my crusader to gain HP back from a voe he vanquished in combat and has tied up. In fact if it's a torture session and his goals are in line with his deity, I would think the deity would reward him all day throughout various beatings. On the other hand, if the torture session went ad infinatum with non lethal damage for three weeks or more of just dragging some hapless foe around and heal boxing him occasionally...
Yeah I 'd be a bitter deity. No more powers for you Mr Crusader.