[BO9S] Playing a Crusader; assistance appreciated

[RigaMortus2]

Find out which interpretation of the Crusader's Recovery Mechanic he is using. The one supported by WotC can get pretty unbalancing, especially when using White Raven Tactics.

Speaking of White Raven Tactics, find out ahead of time if your DM is allowing you to use maneuver on your allies AND yourself, or just your allies (not including yourself).

ally
A creature friendly to you. In most cases, references to "allies" include yourself.

 

[brehobit]

Find out which interpretation of the Crusader's Recovery Mechanic he is using. The one supported by WotC can get pretty unbalancing, especially when using White Raven Tactics.

Speaking of White Raven Tactics, find out ahead of time if your DM is allowing you to use maneuver on your allies AND yourself, or just your allies (not including yourself).

Yeah, the WoTC way of recovery clearly isn't what was intended. Maybe what's written though. Same with WRT. No way should you be allowed to use it on yourself.

We need errata, badly.

Mark

 

[blargney the second]

Thanks for that link to the thread on the WotC forums! I'd never noticed that the total reset only took your expended maneuvers, not everything that was readied.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Just to clarify (for those that don't want to read through the link I posted), this is how it works...

Crusader Recovery
If, at the end of your turn, you cannot be granted a maneuver because you have no withheld maneuvers remaining, you recover all expended maneuvers, and a new pair of readied maneuvers is granted to you. Randomly determine which of your maneuvers are granted and which are withheld.

That last sentence is the problem. The way WotC is reading/ruling it, it is as if it was meant to say Randomly determine which of your previously expended maneuvers are granted and which are withheld. In which case, this is how WotC claims it works:

If you have a total of 5 maneuvers available to you (usually takes about 3 rounds for a 1st level Crusader), you can use 2 of them (usually 1 Boost & 1 Strike). They become expended. Then, at the end of your turn, you have 3 granted maneuvers and 2 readied maneuvers. By the quote above, you recover all expended maneuvers (in thise case 2) and a new pair (pair = 2) of readied maneuvers is granted to you. So you get them right back, in addition to the other 3 maneuvers you still had granted to you. This process continues so long as you use only 2 maneuvers each round.

To "fix" this, you have to reword that sentence so it reads:

Randomly determine which of your readied maneuvers are granted and which are withheld

That would clear it up I would think.

 

[shilsen]

To "fix" this, you have to reword that sentence so it reads:

Randomly determine which of your readied maneuvers are granted and which are withheld

That would clear it up I would think.

Agreed. I would also change "and a new pair of readied maneuvers is granted to you" into "and a new pair of readied maneuvers is granted to you, replacing all (if any) that you have currently granted."

 

[hong]

If you have a total of 5 maneuvers available to you (usually takes about 3 rounds for a 1st level Crusader), you can use 2 of them (usually 1 Boost & 1 Strike). They become expended. Then, at the end of your turn, you have 3 granted maneuvers and 2 readied maneuvers. By the quote above, you recover all expended maneuvers (in thise case 2) and a new pair (pair = 2) of readied maneuvers is granted to you. So you get them right back, in addition to the other 3 maneuvers you still had granted to you. This process continues so long as you use only 2 maneuvers each round.

To "fix" this, you have to reword that sentence so it reads:

Randomly determine which of your readied maneuvers are granted and which are withheld

That would clear it up I would think.

Huh. Even without looking at WotC CustServ, I'd have assumed that the text is as the "fixed" interpretation. Ie, it's like dealing cards from a deck, and reshuffling the deck when all cards have been dealt.

 

[Particle_Man]

In case it's relevant, or people prefer dealing with a specific build rather than the Crusader as a whole, the build is likely to be a lawful evil* human Crusader of 2nd or 3rd level (to be determined), using a 32 pt buy. The plan is to go for heavy armour, heavy shield, and heavy mace.

*I should note that it's not an 'evil' game; I just want to try and play an evil character who actually functions in a group dynamic, and isn't a complete ass. We shall see how well this works.

One roleplaying concern: Crusaders of various alignments are meant to see the entire world through the lens of how they can serve the interests of their ethos. Thus a Crusader that is evil isn't "merely" selfish - he or she is actively trying to increase the amount of evil in the world - so we are talking "Blackguard" or "Anti-Paladin" levels of evil, here. If you don't have a party that is also on board with that, this may be a problem for your game.

That said, if you want some ideas for feats: the mettle ability makes Iron Will and Great Fortitude tempting, and the Smite ability makes Extra Smiting attractive (expecially since the Smite is not alignment specific). You might consider the Three Mountains feat from Complete Warrior. And of course the feat in Bo9S that gives you an extra granted maneuver is very tasty!

A prestige class that the Crusader might like is Ruby Knight of Wee Jas, if you add in a level of cleric to meet the prereqs.

 

[Eloi]

A Crusader who's trying to "work the system" and achieve some extreme level of personal power (and then use this new power for achievement of their *true* goals) might work exceedingly well with a group - after all, how better could they attain each step forward? Better to have a team and work slowly towards their sought-for potency in the far distance.

White Raven maneuvers amplify group effectiveness and give the impression (ah, that all-important semblance which can be mistaken for verity) that "the Crusader's really only a *little* evil. And only towards really bad people, at that." Very handy impression to form.

Very few people are as motivated to keep a group whole and functional as a Crusader with a master plan of personal apotheosis.

 

[Particle_Man]

That would require the (perhaps DM managed) reality that the PC group is in fact better (as in, both willing to do what the Crusader wants done and able to accomplish what the Crusader wants done) at achieving the Crusader's long-term goals than any NPC or NPC group they run across. Otherwise, the Crusader could just as easily betray the party at a critical moment and/or join the BBEG, with the intention of later betrayal of that BBEG, of course.

It would also require the PC party (and indeed, any believable NPCs they run across) to be dumb/ignorant enough to believe that the Crusader, member of a class known to be paragons of their alignment, is not "that" evil, or else (more likely) the Crusader would have to hide his true alignment, and possibly his God and/or class. That is what would make Wee Jas an attractive option. The Crusader could emphasize the Lawful part (and let the party think he is LN, instead of LE) and invest in non-detection magic items.

 

[blargney the second]

Crusaders rock. We just had an amazing session last night where I really got to take advantage of the team-playingness of my crusader. We had one particularly nasty fight with 4 Drowned that each had 300 hp.

* With Iron Guard's Glare and Shield Block, every few rounds I was able to give an ally +11 to their AC, and +4 the rest of the time.
* Righteous Strike let me cure a chunk of damage from my allies several times. Between the healing and improved ACs, I managed to drop the damage on my allies significantly.
* A single round of actions let me add +10 to attack the righteous mightied power attacking cleric. (Vanguard Strike, move to flanking, provoke an AoO that allowed me to trip the enemy with Elusive Target.)

Awesome class, very fun to play.
-blarg