Bogged down by D&D grapple rules.
- Thread starter Wiseblood
- Start date
IceFractal
First Post
The grappling rules aren't too bad once you realize that grappling isn't really comparible to other actions like Trip or Disarm - it's a whole different combat mode, like ranged and melee combat are.
Just as melee combat is different than ranged, grappling is different than melee, hence it has somewhat different rules. Likewise, just as an archer type is better at ranged combat, and a tank better at melee, a specifically grappler type is better at grappling.
Just as melee combat is different than ranged, grappling is different than melee, hence it has somewhat different rules. Likewise, just as an archer type is better at ranged combat, and a tank better at melee, a specifically grappler type is better at grappling.
reanjr
First Post
How about this. It's an attempt to be simple but still close enough to the standard rules that applying feats or other actions related to grappling should fit right in.
Grapple Action and Grapple Check
A grapple action is a standard action that provokes an Attack of Opportunity from opponents that threaten you and with whom you are not currently grappling.
To make a grapple check, roll a d20 and add your melee attack bonus (Base Attack Bonus plus Strength modifier or Base Attack Bonus plus Dexterity modifier if you have the Weapon Finesse feat). A grapple check is opposed by your opponent's grapple check. A grapple check can have the following modifiers:
Before A Grapple
A successful grapple action starts a grapple with an opponent. You can only be grappling one opponent at a time, but you may be grappled by more than one opponent at the same time.
In a grapple
If you are grappling or are being grappled, you are in a grapple. You may not make an attack action or full attack action or any action that causes movement. If you are being grappled by multiple opponents, you may begin grappling any of those opponents as a swift action. If you are grappling an opponent that is not grappling you, you may break the grapple as a swift action. Anytime you make a successful grapple action against an opponent with whom you are grappling, you may perform any standard action or move action as part of the grapple with the following exceptions:
Any actions you make as part of a grapple action suffer a -4 penalty if applicable.
In addition, you may perform the following as part of a successful grapple action:
Pinned
While pinned, you are not considered to be grappling anyone (though you are being grappled and so are in a grapple) and the only grapple action you may take is to break the pin. After breaking a pin, you are grappling the opponent who had you pinned unless you are pinned by another opponent.
Grapple Action and Grapple Check
A grapple action is a standard action that provokes an Attack of Opportunity from opponents that threaten you and with whom you are not currently grappling.
To make a grapple check, roll a d20 and add your melee attack bonus (Base Attack Bonus plus Strength modifier or Base Attack Bonus plus Dexterity modifier if you have the Weapon Finesse feat). A grapple check is opposed by your opponent's grapple check. A grapple check can have the following modifiers:
- +4 per size category larger than Medium
- -4 per size category smaller than Medium
- Four or more arms grants a +2 modifier
- +4 for Improved Grapple
Before A Grapple
A successful grapple action starts a grapple with an opponent. You can only be grappling one opponent at a time, but you may be grappled by more than one opponent at the same time.
In a grapple
If you are grappling or are being grappled, you are in a grapple. You may not make an attack action or full attack action or any action that causes movement. If you are being grappled by multiple opponents, you may begin grappling any of those opponents as a swift action. If you are grappling an opponent that is not grappling you, you may break the grapple as a swift action. Anytime you make a successful grapple action against an opponent with whom you are grappling, you may perform any standard action or move action as part of the grapple with the following exceptions:
- Any action requiring a weapon larger than light
- Ranged attack
- Any action requiring movement
- Any action requiring two hands
- Any other action the DM determines is unavailable
Any actions you make as part of a grapple action suffer a -4 penalty if applicable.
In addition, you may perform the following as part of a successful grapple action:
- Automatically hit opponent with whom you are grappling with a light weapon or unarmed strike (no attack roll is necessary)
- Pin opponent
Pinned
While pinned, you are not considered to be grappling anyone (though you are being grappled and so are in a grapple) and the only grapple action you may take is to break the pin. After breaking a pin, you are grappling the opponent who had you pinned unless you are pinned by another opponent.
Wiseblood
Adventurer
I was hoping for something even easier.
You provoke an AoO unless you have Improved Grapple or Improved Grab.
Use a normal attack roll instead of two rolls the touch attack and the grapple check. You inflict damage as per your size. No bonuses or penalties due to size except for as they relate to armor class. If your opponent hits you during its turn he/she inflicts damage as per their size. The grapple continues until one combatant hits in one round and the other does not. The victor can choose to pin or break the grapple. A pin is maintained automatically until you can hit your opponent with a grapple attack.
Improved grapple gives a +4 to grapple attacks.
You can attack with a light weapon at a -4 penalty.
Opponents not in the grapple can attack grapplers at a -4 penalty.
Likewise you only get your dex bonus vs those that are grappling you.
Additional grapplers are trated as aiding another.
That's what I mean by simple. It's rough but you get the idea. Do you think this could work?
You provoke an AoO unless you have Improved Grapple or Improved Grab.
Use a normal attack roll instead of two rolls the touch attack and the grapple check. You inflict damage as per your size. No bonuses or penalties due to size except for as they relate to armor class. If your opponent hits you during its turn he/she inflicts damage as per their size. The grapple continues until one combatant hits in one round and the other does not. The victor can choose to pin or break the grapple. A pin is maintained automatically until you can hit your opponent with a grapple attack.
Improved grapple gives a +4 to grapple attacks.
You can attack with a light weapon at a -4 penalty.
Opponents not in the grapple can attack grapplers at a -4 penalty.
Likewise you only get your dex bonus vs those that are grappling you.
Additional grapplers are trated as aiding another.
That's what I mean by simple. It's rough but you get the idea. Do you think this could work?
werk
First Post
Wiseblood said:
I'm not much of one for house rules in the rules forum, but i'll take a shot at it.
Grapple is a melee attack, no AoO.
Hit means you move into their square and they/you are grappled, no damage dealt. (or they move to your square with imp grab.)
They can attack you back and do damage, or break the grapple, no damage. (no mods)
You can choose to pin or do damage on successive successful attacks.
Once pinned, victims can only escape artist out. Once pinning, you make attacks to maintain the pin or deal damage (releasing pin, maintaining grapple).
Imp Grapple gives you +2 to grapple attacks.
Last edited:
0-hr
Starship Cartographer
IceFractal said:
I think that sums it up pretty well - it's a whole different combat mode. What I would like to see is a grapple system that seems like it is part of the same combat mode as the rest of the fight.
When we moved from 3.0 to 3.5 my biggest disapointment was that the grapples rules were sill as big a mess as they were before. And don't get me wrong, I am quite profficient and familiar with them. But they are still a tangled mess whem compared with "normal" combat. There really MUST be an easier, and more intuitive way to simulate grappling.
One way to simplify it would be to remove the touch attack and then start with an opposed grapple roll...however, in this grapple roll the defender can use dex instead of strength, and can add bonuses that they normally get to their touch ACs applied to their grapple check. So a rogue with 16 dex 12 str, and a ring of protection +3 would get their BAB + 3 (for dex) + 3 (ring of protection on their initial grapple check. After they are in a grapple, their checks are like normal.
Keep in mind with this variant, any bonus to touch ACs becomes MUCH more powerful in stopping a grapple.
An even simplifer version would be to just say the defender can use his dex rather than strenght, and not include any other touch modifiers. This of course makes grappling deadiler for light fighter types that rely on not getting touched in the first place.
Keep in mind with this variant, any bonus to touch ACs becomes MUCH more powerful in stopping a grapple.
An even simplifer version would be to just say the defender can use his dex rather than strenght, and not include any other touch modifiers. This of course makes grappling deadiler for light fighter types that rely on not getting touched in the first place.
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