Bonus to Base attack as a Racial Trait

[ocircuit82]

I am currently doing a Warhammer conversion to d20 and I am having a rough time emulating combat ability between basic races in my campaign world.

I have hit a problem with my elven race. In warhammer they are meant to be excellent fighters, and the only way that i can represent this in d20 is to give them a higher BAB.

To do this i would need to give them at least 3 racial hit dice, however this leaves them with twice the hitpoints as their human counterparts.[And only a +1 on their BAB!] Certainly not the most fragile of races anymore.

I play a very realistic combat variant with these rules;

• Armour as DR
• Defense bonus
• Defensive Roll & Parry
• WP/VP

This means that an increase in hitpoints is not a "representative" increase in combat skill anymore.

To combat this could I possibly give the elven race a bonus to their BAB?
Many races in the MM have a BAB against a certain race, so I am finding the level adjustment hard to judge.

If I awared them +2 to their BAB would it be about equal to +2Str?

+2 BAB affects Melee & Missile
+2 Strength affects Melee Damage Carrying & Skills

Has anyone found a cunning solution to this??
Cheers..

 

[Khaalis]

The problem is that the system is not designed to give out bonuses of any kid directly to BAB. BAB effects more than just to hit, it effects iterative attacks as well.

Strength bonus also does not fit the bill because to get a +2 to attack rolls you also get a +2 to damage rolls and it requires a +4 Bonus to Strength (also effecting carry capacity etc.). +4 STR is a big boost that usually requires a LOT to offset it. This is especially important in the systems you are using.

To achieve the effect I think you are after, I would add something similar to Weapon Focus and/or Greater Weapon Focus. At it as a racial feat, preferably a virtual feat (thus only works under specified conditions) but make it viable to all weapons.

JMHO-YMMV

 

[Vrecknidj]

The Heroism spell description says "This spell imbues a single creature with great bravery and morale in battle. The target gains a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks."

Just say that the elves are naturally heroic, and that they have, in effect, a permanent Heroism spell in effect.

Dave

 

[Thanee]

Don't give them BAB, but rather an attack bonus only.

Bye
Thanee

 

[DanMcS]

Halflings have a +1 bonus to thrown weapons, don't they? It's not unprecedented, but yeah, don't give out BAB directly.

I'm not sure what your problem is, exactly, with a couple racial hit dice, as this would affect hps and BAB as well, both of which are related to combat ability.

Another option is to handwave it and give the elves automatic proficiency with a couple martial weapons of their choice, and maybe light armor proficiency. That gives them an effective +4 BAB above an average person. A first level elven fighter won't be more skilled than a first level human fighter, but a first level elven commoner would be much more skilled than a human commoner.

That makes it easier to balance in play. Yes, in the source game, an "average" elven fighter may be more skilled than an average human, but that may just be because they have a couple more levels under their belt. You're not trying to recreate the original game exactly, but to make a fun game to adventure in, right? So change your assumptions.

 

[xazil]

What about just giving all elves the weapon finesse feat for free? This synergizes nicely with the dexterity boost.

If this isn't far enough give them the Weapon familiarity feat from the Complete Warrior, then all elves also have the Elven Thinblades instead of longswords.

Most elves in the armies would simply be above level 1 by the due to the Warhammer worlds small population and extremely long lifespans of elves, along with all three elves coming from some type warrior culture (paranoid infighting, citizen levies or rangers).

Btw, I would love to see the finished product.

 

[Ferret]

What about virtual BAB? All elves have a BAB of 3, this is not added to the class level, if the class levels would normally surpass 3 then that is taken instead.

so the Fighters BAB is

3
3
3
4
5

The wizard's BAB is

3
3
3
3
3
3
3
4

 

[ocircuit82]

What a great group of replies!
I like all of them, now I am spoiled for choice I will never make up my mind.

What about virtual BAB

I have never heard of this before, that's a clever idea that will only effect low levels, so balance won't be a big issue.

If this isn't far enough give them the Weapon familiarity feat from the Complete Warrior, then all elves also have the Elven Thinblades instead of longswords.

If they could use their DEX then problem solved.
What are the stats for Elven Thinblades? I have heard of these before. Are they from Complete warrior? I have all of the version 3 Class Supplements, so I haven't bought complete warrior yet.

Just say that the elves are naturally heroic, and that they have, in effect, a permanent Heroism spell in effect

That is delightfully simple that I might have to do it! A +1 to Level Adjust?

Most elves in the armies would simply be above level 1 by the due to the Warhammer worlds small population and extremely long lifespans of elves, along with all three elves coming from some type warrior culture (paranoid infighting, citizen levies or rangers).

My problem with this is I already have a level progression in mind that is working really well in our games. It leaves +5 items to special characters only, and leaves everyone open to a beating from a 18HD Greater Demon.

Warhammer Character Progression

conscript/slave: 1st level commoner
Rank & File: 1st level warrior
Elite Troop: 1st level fighter/ranger/barbarian/rogue
Champion: levels 2 - 4
Hero: levels 5 - 8
Lord: levels 9 - 12
Special Characters: levels 13 - 15

Thanks everyone for putting up with my nonsense posts

 

[Staffan]

What are the stats for Elven Thinblades? I have heard of these before. Are they from Complete warrior? I have all of the version 3 Class Supplements, so I haven't bought complete warrior yet.

They were originally from one of the first Dragon magazines released after 3e (the one that says "Fighters kick ass!" on the cover), and I think it was reprinted in Complete Warrior (not in the 3.0 class books or Arms & Equipment guide though - typical that they include the immensely stupid mercurial blade but not the thinblade... but I digress). Basically, it's an exotic rapier that does 1d8 damage. Threat range 18-20 and allows weapon finesse, just like the rapier. Can't recall the cost off-hand though.

As for a straight attack bonus, I did find a creature in Hyperconscious that has a special ability that gives it +2 to attack rolls and save DCs. OK, Hyperconscious is a 3rd-party book, but it is written by a WOTC person (Bruce Cordell), so I don't think it's a broken ability or anything. Just call it +1 to hit with swords and bows instead, or something. Or give them free weapon focus with the longbow and a sword of their choice.

 

[reanjr]

I am currently doing a Warhammer conversion to d20 and I am having a rough time emulating combat ability between basic races in my campaign world.

I have hit a problem with my elven race. In warhammer they are meant to be excellent fighters, and the only way that i can represent this in d20 is to give them a higher BAB.

To do this i would need to give them at least 3 racial hit dice, however this leaves them with twice the hitpoints as their human counterparts.[And only a +1 on their BAB!] Certainly not the most fragile of races anymore.

I play a very realistic combat variant with these rules;

• Armour as DR
• Defense bonus
• Defensive Roll & Parry
• WP/VP

This means that an increase in hitpoints is not a "representative" increase in combat skill anymore.

To combat this could I possibly give the elven race a bonus to their BAB?
Many races in the MM have a BAB against a certain race, so I am finding the level adjustment hard to judge.

If I awared them +2 to their BAB would it be about equal to +2Str?

+2 BAB affects Melee & Missile
+2 Strength affects Melee Damage Carrying & Skills

Has anyone found a cunning solution to this??
Cheers..

It's hard to adjudicate.

+2 Str is going to give you a +1 to melee attack, damage, strength checks, several skill checks and carrying capacity is going to increase. Also gives you a little more buffer for strength ability damage and drain

+2 BAB is going to give you a +2 to missile attack, melee attack and (on average for a fighter followed by on average for a wizard across 20 levels) 0.3/0.35 extra attacks per round on a full attack.

I'd say they're close, but the +2 BAB has the slight edge over +2 Str.