Book of Nine Swords -- okay?

[Thanatos]

Even so, the warblade feels overpowered based on his d12 die type and his too easy method of recovery. I can not see a reason that an intelligence based fighter needs a d12. The warblades method of recovery means that each opponet will likely face his entire arsenal of powers. Imho, the warblade needs a nerf to bring him back into line with the other classes in the book.

The dfferent 9 Disciplines require different sets of skills...the warblade can master 2 to 9th level, so thats 2 skills that need to be kept maxed out, plus if he chooses to work in another disipline or two, thats more skill points required...he would basically not be able to utilize his range of maneuvers without the bump up in skill points.

Like the mystic theurge, I think this is a class that looks more powerful on paper then it actually plays out to be, though, as I have said before, I think this is the most powerful of the 3 and is probably at the top of the melee power curve. The D12 with heavy armor and all those skill points is tough to swallow, but I intend to give it a fair shake before I swing the nerf bat, if its necessary.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The D12 with heavy armor and all those skill points is tough to swallow, but I intend to give it a fair shake before I swing the nerf bat, if its necessary.

It's a fairly minor nitpick, but warblades don't get heavy armor proficiency.

 

[Thanatos]

It's a fairly minor nitpick, but warblades don't get heavy armor proficiency.

Yeah...I really do know that...I had a brain cramp...allergies are killing me today. Thanks for catching it...I'd hate for people to see that and seriously freak out lol

 

[Mouseferatu]

Yeah...I really do know that...I had a brain cramp...allergies are killing me today. Thanks for catching it...I'd hate for people to see that and seriously freak out lol

Gosh, I can't imagine what, in this thread, would make you think that people might freak out over something so minor.

 

[Thurbane]

Slightly O/T, but I want to ask a couple of questions about the whole caster vs. fighter debate.

- If the worth of character is measured entirely on damage potential, where do characters like Bards or Beguilers fit in?

- Isn't it true, especially at higher levels, that a fighter can pick up magic items that let him be better at "wizard stuff" like nuking, gathering info, warding etc. moreso than a wizard can pick up items that allow him to be better at "fighter stuff" like dishing melee damage and soaking up damage? For instance, it would be far easier for a fighter to pick up an item that lets him shoot fireballs than for a wizard to get an item that will put him on a par with a fighter's BAB, HP and AC...

 

[Dragonblade]

So are most people. It's just that your definition of fun isn't everybody else's, and (as Gargoyle pointed out above) unbalanced classes and games affect many people's enjoyment of the game.

Except as evidenced by this thread the term "unbalanced" seems subjective. Everyone clearly has different opinions on what is or is not balanced. Just because Felon and some others believe that the ToB is unbalanced, does not make it so. Likewise, just because I think the book is fine for my game, doesn't mean that its fine for you at your table.

I suggest reading the book and judging for yourself whether it is appropriate for your game.

 

[SteveC]

My only exp with characters from the book is with a crusader in my Saturday game. The other fighter type in the party is a paladin. Both are 12th level (the crusader being a replacement). So far, the crusader seems to be more about helping fellow party members setup attacks/defend with the paladin being better at straight damage dealing (divine might, divine sac, etc).

My exp with well built high level dps fighters/barbs around 17 to 18 level is that 175 points a round is easily reachable with moderate armor classes with haste. With a bard helping out the numbers will reach much higher. Unfortunately high level bards are pretty rare.

Even so, the warblade feels overpowered based on his d12 die type and his too easy method of recovery. I can not see a reason that an intelligence based fighter needs a d12. The warblades method of recovery means that each opponet will likely face his entire arsenal of powers. Imho, the warblade needs a nerf to bring him back into line with the other classes in the book.

Thanks Alceste! I am not allowing these characters in my Shackled City game, but I expect to do so when I run Age of Worms again as a followup. I suppose by then we'll have all the errata spelled out (either that or be in 4th Ed!)

So it looks to be another case of something that may seem to be over powered, but in actual play turns out to be better. Still, if you wouldn't mind posting a bit more as your group levels up, I'd certainly appreciate it! We will obviously have to see about the Warblade, since they seem to be the consistently most mentioned as being over the top.

--Steve

 

[SteveC]

Except as evidenced by this thread the term "unbalanced" seems subjective. Everyone clearly has different opinions on what is or is not balanced. Just because Felon and some others believe that the ToB is unbalanced, does not make it so. Likewise, just because I think the book is fine for my game, doesn't mean that its fine for you at your table.

I suggest reading the book and judging for yourself whether it is appropriate for your game.

Isn't that the truth!

I typically try and read for posts from people who seem to have similar play styles to mine and see how they're doing. D&D is a very...diverse game, with a lot of different play styles contained within it.

As I'm looking at these rules, I think I see a trial balloon for rules for 4E. I have a feeling that it is still too soon to implement something like this in a broader sense, but I like the ideas behind them.

--Steve

 

[Thurbane]

To be brutally honest, I wish I had have bought another book rather than ToB...I actually went into my game store with the intention of buying Complete Divine, but when I saw that ToB was out I thought "what the hey, that looks pretty cool". I am convinced that CD would have had a lot more stuff that is usable in my games than ToB. the last book I bought was PHBII which I found about 500% more relevant and useful to my group than ToB...

I can't blame anybody else, though, I should have done my homework before I bought it. I'm not saying the book is fundamentally bad, just that it really doesn't suit the style or flavour of my own gaming group.

 

[Thanatos]

Gosh, I can't imagine what, in this thread, would make you think that people might freak out over something so minor.

Call it psychic intuition LOL.

- If the worth of character is measured entirely on damage potential, where do characters like Bards or Beguilers fit in?

I don't think a character is entirely measured by just damage potential. I think it just tends to be the easiest way to judge, since it can provide concrete numbers to work from.

- Isn't it true, especially at higher levels, that a fighter can pick up magic items that let him be better at "wizard stuff" like nuking, gathering info, warding etc. moreso than a wizard can pick up items that allow him to be better at "fighter stuff" like dishing melee damage and soaking up damage? For instance, it would be far easier for a fighter to pick up an item that lets him shoot fireballs than for a wizard to get an item that will put him on a par with a fighter's BAB, HP and AC...

I don't really know that its true, I would think between spells and magic its probably easier for the caster to simulate being a fighter, at least for a very short span of time. There are items both can pick up that allows them to work in the realm of the other...I suppose that ultimately depends on what rulebooks are being used and whats being allowed in. But even picking up alot of these items aren't going to allow you to function as the other class, save for maybe a couple of rounds and even then, the highest level spells wouldn't be available to the fighter, nor the same shee melee power of the fighter available to the wizard.