D&D 4E Book of Vile Darkness: What do you want in it?

[SSquirrel]

I'd love for WotC to release some books that aren't exact rehashes of 3.x material, many times w/the same name. Put what you want in the book, just be original already. I love the 4E system, but they're going back to the well way too much. Hitting OD&D and AD&D for references is all right to a degree, as they're trying to appeal to the older crowd as well, but rehashing books like Sandstorm? C'mon.

As far as content tho, I really liked some of the stuff Monte did for his own Chaositech book. Some of that would certainly be vile darkness.

 

[The Little Raven]

but rehashing books like Sandstorm?

Are you talking about this novel? Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Product (Sandstorm)

 

[Shemeska]

If there's a tie-in to a SyFy Original Movie that will be horror. Not Vile Darkness. Just horror.

For their sake I really hope it's more than a movie tie-in.

And it'll need to be more than a 2nd class reprint of the 3.x BoVD with PoL tropes inserted (which was sadly the impression I got from the 4e Abyss book versus the 3.x Fiendish Codex I).

What they would be best doing is to provide an actual guide to playing evil or otherwise non-heroic characters in an ongoing campaign, both in an "Evil" campaign, or as part of a non-evil group and making it work. However IMO up to this point 4e has been big on the Heroes are Heroic and can only be allowed to do Heroic things. A bit one dimensional in what sort of game styles it willingly supports. If they're willing to break from a 4e core trope, I'll give them credit where credit is due. But it has to be written well and it has to have some depth, rather than 'here's a demon class, and a ghoul class, and a shatterstone blooddrinker nounverb fiend class'. If it's done with depth and done with serious attention to the topic it will go over well.

And please divest any notion of 'evil = icky'. Please.

 

[LostSoul]

I would like to see a lot of focus on Warlocks and what their Pacts actually mean in-game. What does it mean to have traded a piece of your soul (or whatever) for ultimate power?

I would like to see talk about player choices along a moral dimension and how to deal with them, given different play styles. You don't need to play an EVIL PC in order to get really creepy play; give a PC powers that have an effect on society and a goal they want to drive at, and let players approach it as they will.

I'd like to see monsters that have interesting relationships with regular, common folk. In my game there's a kyton in a town that's been there for millennia, allowing the ruler of the town to call upon it when she needs to enforce Justice. The kyton believes that it is teaching people how to be Just, but it's always disappointed in the nature of human beings - the power it offers is always exploited.

I'd like to see a section focus on the harm that Angels can cause.

I'd like to see a section focus on evil Gods and why their worshippers are allowed - welcomed! - in regular society.

 

[delericho]

Who would you choose?

Of the guys at WotC, I believe James Wyatt is the only one who's actually qualified to write it. Unfortunately, his "Book of Exalted Deeds" was, frankly, a bit of a disaster.

I agree that of the available options, Ari Marmell is probably the best bet. "Heroes of Horror" was a very good book.

I actually will keep the BoVD when I purge most of my 3E books (probably to use them as supplements for C&C henceforth), as it's got some stuff in it that I think is worth keeping, such as some of the monsters, the alternate evil human origin story and some other elements.

Indeed. There are actually a lot of good game elements in the book, which I'm quite happy to continue to use.

It's just that I had hoped for... more. Something genuinely 'mature', rather than just going for that NC-17 on shock factor.

 

[Pour]

I remember hearing from one source or another that this book is supposedly penned by Vecna. How amazing would it be if the book was really more of a journal of sorts, a tour of Vecna's rise to godhood, personal narrative not unlike Iggwilv in the Demonomicon but a little more elaborate, taking us through his story, stopping points along the way detailing crunch. It begins with his lowliest days and giving guides/inspirations/crunch/flavor for Heroic! There is so much just in that alone: the morality of the material world, how magic can be evil, the warlock debate, being an evil character amidst good PCs, then specific places/items/powers Vecna visited and the villains he met, bested, or was burned by on his way to powerful wizard.

THEN we hit Paragon, when Vecna has become a powerful wizard in search of lichdom, and we visit all the villains/locales etc etc he encountered to get there, in detail, crunch wise touching more on communion with planar entities, the process of becoming a lich, attracting followers of evil bent, influencing more powerful people.

THEN Epic, where Vecna is a lich looking for godhood, and all the planar sites he visits, all the artifacts he steals/destroys, the villainous archdevils/demons/fey/dragons he bests or tricks or makes accords with, and talks about the dark and selfish road to godhood for PCs, the establishment of personal cults and religions, rituals for taking the souls of powerful slain foes, creation of evil artifacts, and so on.

Yeah, a totally amazing framework like that would sell me in an instant. It's really the best of both worlds. On the one hand, you're appealing to the older editions via the Vecna framework, but you're also giving us something new in the specific journey he took from wizard to god, and with 4e crunch to support it.

 

[delericho]

That would indeed be pretty cool.

However, I can't help but think that it would be even cooler if, instead of being a book penned by Vecna, it was instead a collection of the most damnable writings by all of the most evil D&D villains of history. That is, it is the collected evilness of all the villains: Tharizdun, Iggwilv, Strahd, Soth...

 

[Pour]

That would indeed be pretty cool.

However, I can't help but think that it would be even cooler if, instead of being a book penned by Vecna, it was instead a collection of the most damnable writings by all of the most evil D&D villains of history. That is, it is the collected evilness of all the villains: Tharizdun, Iggwilv, Strahd, Soth...

Yes, very nice, and we might see some of their blasphemy at different points in their lives, accounting for material for all tiers, as well as all walks of life, from the evils of a lowly Vecna scheming to usurp his mentor's tower to those of Darklords and gods. I'd be particularly interested in some blurb involving Asmodeus' cross over into true godhood. On the other hand, though, with the masses clamoring for more Epic material, what better than this book, which could be exclusively Epic with little trouble.

I would insist we also get some new villains in there, too, though. Give me some profane reflections from 4e baddies like the Queen of Chaos, Miska the Wolfspider, Urishtar of Nightwyrm Fortress, whoever is the Far Realm equivalent of Nyarlathotep, Primordials, evil Archfey, corrupted Primal Spirits, etc.

 

[Shemeska]

I remember hearing from one source or another that this book is supposedly penned by Vecna.

Sort of. Vecna wasn't the person who wrote it, but he was however the first person to bind into a single book what had hitherto been a collection of scrolls and manuscripts by numerous previous authors, each who had come into possession of the collection and added their own lore and research into that corpus. Vecna wasn't the last person to add into what was thereafter a book either IIRC. This was all prior to his ascension to deity, both during his mortal days and as a lich. 4e being a different game insomuch as it has different in-game history for its creatures and major figures, may have altered some or all of the previous 1e/2e/3e lore for its 4e BoVD.

Off the top of my head there, so if anyone knows and wants to add in the specific hands the collection and then book passed through, feel free.

 

[Shroomy]

Sort of. Vecna wasn't the person who wrote it, but he was however the first person to bind into a single book what had hitherto been a collection of scrolls and manuscripts by numerous previous authors, each who had come into possession of the collection and added their own lore and research into that corpus. Vecna wasn't the last person to add into what was thereafter a book either IIRC. This was all prior to his ascension to deity, both during his mortal days and as a lich. 4e being a different game insomuch as it has different in-game history for its creatures and major figures, may have altered some or all of the previous 1e/2e/3e lore for its 4e BoVD.

Off the top of my head there, so if anyone knows and wants to add in the specific hands the collection and then book passed through, feel free.

The recent "Channel Divinity: Vecna" article in Dragon 395 revealed the 4e origin of the BoVD. It gives Vecna more credit for its creation than what you described, as it doesn't mention the source of his discoveries, but it doesn't contradict it either.