Book of Vile Darkness

[jester47]

Wait... first you say the game is rated R... then you say that most of it is PG-13 and the BoVD is R. Personally I'm not even sure about that. I suppose the illustrations MIGHT push it there (if there's excessive gore and nudity), but talking about human-sacrifice and demon-worship doesn't do it.

Sorry not being clear. In the entertainment industry it seems that there is always an element of bleedover. That is if you target somthing for ages 13 and up, kids younger than that are going to think its cool. So if you dont want people younger than 12 playing the game you target it at 18+. So the lowest common denominator of D&D is R, that is as low as it will get. However, since the relaese of 3E it has been cruising at PG13. BoVD is going to be a little more riskier than the other D&D stuff. its just fair warning if you are the sort to play it with your family.

Aaron.

 

[Wolfspider]

I think you mean hearsay

EDIT: Whoops, by the time I posted that, you had already changed it. My bad!

Still a darn funny typo. Thanks for pointing it out...it made my afternoon!

 

[jester47]

too many reports on the inquisition in the late middle ages...

hearsay, heresy, is there really that much difference, also, wasn't sure how the hear-say was spelled...

Aaron.

 

[jester47]

My comment on the matter is: no big deal.

The fact of the matter is that the so-called 'soccer mums'

Wouldn't those be football mums over there Al?

Aaron.

 

[Xarlen]

Y'know, considering the artwork, and the way the PHB was constructed, it seemed designed to target the 15+ male adolecent.

I'm going to have to say, that I got into D&D, or atleast, fantasy novels as a Freshman in highschool. I wanted to play RPGs THEN, but didn't find anyone.

I will note that the first time I started playing 3e, and heck, I started DMing (And still have that game, I add), was when I was 17. I don't think the PHB should require you to be 18, c'mon. Sure, it will not cripple the hobby, it will not kill it, but D&D is not something that should be kept away from teenagers. I can get my hands on some rather violent video games, and I think D&D is even more harmless, content wise, then those.

It all depends on the DM. There are some DMs go game for their family, children and all. I imagine that they don't have these elements in their games. That's just fine. I imagine high schoolers experiment with the elements, but likely not very good. Morale delimmas are perhaps not seen with so much conviction and consideration as 'Let's blow it up'. I know some High Schoolers that would want DBZ D20. College students (When time is had), can incorperate Anthropology, Psychology, Geology, and so forth into their games, offering serious morale delimmas.

D&D is a System. A rules mechanic. So, WHY say 'you have to be 18 to use these rules'. Besides, if you really want to look at an RPG that targeted itself to kids, or atleast 'cutsefied' itself, then look at Changeling. Changeling had a Lot of potential, but they made it too cute. I quote a friend who won't touch it: "The first time we played, we went up against the Crayon Dragon." Usually, fairy tales are not very nice. Most were based on true, or rather grim things; look at the Brothers Grim. Now, how well did Changeling do?

But... I'm straying off topic.

 

[jester47]

I agree that the PHB and the core rulebooks is about ages 15+. But it is essentially targeted at adults because if they said on the books 13+ you would get more 8 - 12 year olds which is exactly what they dont want. Also targeting an age group and designing for an age group are two different things. I think the core rules are designed for people 15+ but targeted at 18+. And I think this is wise because if you write somthing for 15+ and market it to 18+ most 18+ will easily understand it. (trust me, I have met some real morons in this hobby, but all in all most people are pretty intelligent.)

Aaron.

 

[hellbender]

Suffice it to say....

Monte Cook is an intelligent writer who has put out many tasteful products. He is far wiser than to put out anything that would cripple or hurt the hobby. Any speculation to the contrary will be easily dispelled when the book is released.

And WotC artists do not all shop at the same hobby shop, the art is more than likely not going to make anyone have seizures. Having contact with many of them, anything blatant would have been announced by now.

And regarding nudity in any D&D product: Classical art as well as modern art and sculpture is rife with depictions of the nude human form. Anyone offended by a pair of breasts on a harpy and considers that as vulgar has no appreciation for artistic expression, in my opinion.

hellbender

 

[Corinth]

What makes you think the target audience for 3e is 18+ year olds? I'd say it's more early teens and up -- and a lot of that's just in the complexity of the rules, not the content per se.

Dancey's say-so at the time, when he had the final say on that very issue. He said that D&D's target is the college undergrad, and that's the way it's been ever since.

 

[shadow]

I really think that BoVD is more of a marketing gimmick more than anything. WotC is looking to increase D&D sales by attracting players of certain games (*cough* White Wolf *cough*) who prefer dark and more "mature" gamers. One of the things that has always turned a lot of the aforementioned players off to D&D was the reputation that D&D was a "kiddie" game, or a "hack n' slash" game. BoVD is Wizard's way of attracting those players to D&D.
With that said, I would really like to know if such a book is really necessary? Although cultists sacrifing people, demonic pacts, and selling one's soul have been in many a D&D campaign, are specific rules really needed for them? I've always viewed such things as a plot device, rather than someting that specific rules were needed for. I wouldn't mind seeing villanous presige classes, but I've already seen quite a few of them in the various splatbooks. (For example Acolyte of the Skin and the various necromancer classes from Tome and Blood, or the Blighter and the Bane of Infidels from Masters of the Wild.) Moreover, the prestige classes, spells, and magic items in the splatbooks were edgy enough for my tastes; I can't imagine how much more edgy they must be to warrant a Mature Content Warning.

 

[gregweller]

If anyone's mentioned this already, my apologies. I'd make the point that we already have a 'Book of Vile Darkness' available for free. It's the MALLEUS MALEFICARUM, and you can get it at:

http://www.malleusmaleficarum.org

I especially like the version that's done as a Microsoft Help file. If you think about that for a bit, you can't get much viler than that!