Boots of Levitation

[Diirk]

It says as per the spell, and the spell doesn't have a duration of 'permanent'. Thats good enough for me !

While its true many item descriptions do state durations, most of them come with attached caveats that aren't in the spell descriptions (eg, Boots of Speed limited to 10 rounds as per the spell, however the item can be split up into many uses of shorter durations etc).

With a specific duration lacking, I fail to see any reason to assume the item should be permanent instead of just referencing the base spell. The Scabbard of Keen Edges is a good example of this. It casts keen edge 3/day, but has no duration listed. Why bother with 3 times a day then, when the first use would make your weapon keen permanently, if you followed your above interpretation.

Heck, after the first 2 days of owning the item, you could make the entire party's weapons keen, then you could hire it out and make a huge profit !

 

[dcollins]

With a specific duration lacking, I fail to see any reason to assume the item should be permanent instead of just referencing the base spell. The Scabbard of Keen Edges is a good example of this. It casts keen edge 3/day, but has no duration listed. Why bother with 3 times a day then, when the first use would make your weapon keen permanently, if you followed your above interpretation.

Your argument is backwards. If the scabbard has a listed limitation, then certainly it needs a finite duration to make that relevant.

On the other hand, if an item has no limitation, why bother with re-activating it continually all the time? What's the purpose of that? Do any DM's with rogues sneaking with a ring of invisibility screw them by accidentally becoming visible if they forget to re-activate it every 30 minutes? Or is the whole issue just ignored and presumed to be continually active while the ring is on?

 

[Diirk]

I never said it would come up in play often, its just something to keep in mind However if you try to use a hat of disguise to pass your half-orc off as human for extended periods, people may start to wonder why you mutter 'absalone' every hour or so.

If you wanted something to function permanently rather than for a short duration, there's a reason why continuous items cost more than command word items.

 

[dcollins]

However if you try to use a hat of disguise to pass your half-orc off as human for extended periods, people may start to wonder why you mutter 'absalone' every hour or so.

Question: As DM, do you really do that? Or are you just coming up with that for the sake of this debate?

 

[Saeviomagy]

In the case of the scabbard, the scabbard ACTUALLY CASTS THE SPELL . Thus it follows all the rules for the spell.

I'd have to say that boots of levitation merely put a levitation effect upon the user, which runs for as much or as little time as needed.

Because frankly, it's a bit silly to do otherwise unless the item is somehow limited in uses.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In the case of the scabbard, the scabbard ACTUALLY CASTS THE SPELL. Thus it follows all the rules for the spell.

I'd have to say that boots of levitation merely put a levitation effect upon the user...

... as if she had cast levitate on herself.

There's a difference between "as if she had cast levitate" and "as if she had ACTUALLY cast levitate"?

-Hyp.

 

[Diirk]

Question: As DM, do you really do that? Or are you just coming up with that for the sake of this debate?

Well, a. I don't DM and b. No, I probably wouldn't, unless I could figure out how to make it the start of an adventure or something. Like I said its the sort of thing that would virtually never come up in play, but its how the items work.

 

[dcollins]

Well, a. I don't DM and b. No, I probably wouldn't, unless I could figure out how to make it the start of an adventure or something. Like I said its the sort of thing that would virtually never come up in play, but its how the items work.

So you say that's how it works, but you (along with everyone else) would ignore it all the time. That's what I mean about that ruling being "clunky". Let's just assume that's not how it works and have the ruling be clean and straightforward and in sync with how DMs actually run the game.

 

[Diirk]

The ruling isn't clunky at all. For most items it won't even make a difference, but in some cases it will (A command word item that lets the user cast a CL 5 shield at will for example... said item will most likely run out mid-combat, if you pay attention to the duration such items should have).

For items where it doesn't make a difference, all thats necessary is to ask players what their intentions are. "Do you wish to activate the item every time its wearing off? Would you rather just use it when you need to, and then let it expire til next time you need it?" etc, the little details can be glossed over in much the same way that you don't ask them to describe every toilet break their characters make.

Letting at will items be considered permanent duration is dangerous in other ways... whats to stop him simply casting levitate on himself with the boots at the start of the day, then putting on boots of speed instead? Its 3 minute duration. Nothing else.

 

[dcollins]

Letting at will items be considered permanent duration is dangerous in other ways... whats to stop him simply casting levitate on himself with the boots at the start of the day, then putting on boots of speed instead? Its 3 minute duration. Nothing else.

New question: Do you really think permanent magic items work like that? Can the characters in your party use one ring of invisibility, pass it around and each activate it, and all be invisible for 30 minutes?

Permanent worn items aren't supposed to work like that. Remove the item, and you lose access to its magic. Which further shows that permanent magic items are not doing the same thing as simply casting a spell effect -- they have innate magical properties.