Boots of Striding and Springing: Whats the rules on it?

[Felix]

Oh, you mean SUPERNATURAL!

Is this what you are saying?
"Supernatural abilities are not normal."

If so, it would be abnormal for:
a paladin to have Aura of Courage.
a shadowdancer being able to hide in plain sight.
a bard to be able to inspire courage, competience and greatness or sing a countersong.
a blackguard to smite good and who emenates an aura of despair.
a cleric able to turn undead.
a druid to have a Thousand Faces.
et cetera.

But for all of those character classes, those class abilities are normal. And the monk's isn't?

I cited Breathe Underwater (Ex) because the example had to do with the monk entering an anti-magic zone; the monk still has the ability, it is only supressed. Breathe Water doesn't function on land. Extraordinary or not.

Does the existance of a setting that cancels or supresses abilities mean that an ability isn't normal? I sure hope not. Otherwise all abilities become abnormal. And I don't think all abilities are abnormal.

 

[Drasmir]

I’m afraid I will have to argue semantics here, which I believe is a very viable argument considering that the rules of D&D are based upon the written word (otherwise there would be no D&D).

Quoted from Merriam-Webster OnLine http://www.m-w.com (type supernatural in the Dictionary field)
su·per·nat·u·ral
Pronunciation: "sü-p&r-'na-ch&-r&l, -'nach-r&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin supernaturalis, from Latin super- + natura nature
Date: 15th century
1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)

Please take note of the second definition, “departing from what is usual or normal” which states that that which is supernatural, by definition, is NOT normal.

Oh, you mean SUPERNATURAL!
Is this what you are saying?
"Supernatural abilities are not normal."

If so, it would be abnormal for:
a paladin to have Aura of Courage.
a shadowdancer being able to hide in plain sight.
a bard to be able to inspire courage, competience and greatness or sing a countersong.
a blackguard to smite good and who emenates an aura of despair.
a cleric able to turn undead.
a druid to have a Thousand Faces.
et cetera.

But for all of those character classes, those class abilities are normal. And the monk's isn't?

With the cases you have listed above, they would not be normal because they are also (if I am not mistaken) supernatural abilities. However, what we are arguing here is that a monk’s movement (from 9th level on) is not normal, therefore, it is not doubled by boots of striding and springing. Please see the following:

Boots of Striding and Springing
The wearer of these boots moves at double his or her normal speed. In addition to this striding ability, these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. The wearer can jump with a +10 competence bonus to Jump checks, and the wearer’s jumping distance is not limited by his or her height.
Caster Level: 3rd; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, expeditious retreat, jump; Market Price: 6,000 gp; Weight: 1 lb.

So, since the monk’s movement rate beyond 9th level is not normal (supernatural) then that additional movement is not doubled because, as the description of boots of striding and springing state, only normal movement is doubled.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Please take note of the second definition, “departing from what is usual or normal” which states that that which is supernatural, by definition, is NOT normal.

I've been resisting the dictionary definition card, because it has the problem that "Extraordinary", also by definition is "not normal"... and yet I feel that ER/BoS&S should modify Extraordinary movement, just not Supernatural

-Hyp.

 

[Mordeth]

So, since the monk’s movement rate beyond 9th level is not normal (supernatural) then that additional movement is not doubled because, as the description of boots of striding and springing state, only normal movement is doubled.

The way I understand it is, he gets his 50 movement, boots double that, then you add in his supernatural.

Who knows though, maybe monks were supposed to move faster than quicklings

 

[Number47]

In this context, read "normal" as being "not magically enhanced". This actually comes under the rule that two like enhancements do not stack. A monk's move of 60 or greater is magical, whether normal or not. A magic item cannot enhance a monks already magically fast movement.

 

[Artoomis]

Please take note of the second definition, “departing from what is usual or normal”...

Damn near everything abot D&D adventueres is "supernatural" by that definition. By definition, virtually everything adventurers do is "departing from what is usual or normal."

Not to mention that "supernatural" is a term of art in D&D, the normal definition does not apply.

Besides, is it "normal" for a high-level monk to move very, very quickly? Yes. For ALL D&D monks "usually and normally" move that quickly at high levels.

Dictionary definitions won't cut it here.

Who knows what is meant by "normal" in this case. Unencumbered\unarmored movement only? That would be "normal" movement, certainly.

If you double movement when armored, do you double the movement as modified by the armor, or double it first, and then reduce it?

All this is silly. It's best to simply double the character's movement rate not counting any items or spells that modify movement. No abiguity that way.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The way I understand it is, he gets his 50 movement, boots double that, then you add in his supernatural.

That's not how the FAQ describes it, though.

If his speed is 70, it's essentially 50, + 20 [Su].

The Boots give him +50. The +50 and the +20 don't stack, so he ends up with 100, not 120.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Who knows what is meant by "normal" in this case.

In this case? Anyone who's read the FAQ.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

In this context, read "normal" as being "not magically enhanced". This actually comes under the rule that two like enhancements do not stack. A monk's move of 60 or greater is magical, whether normal or not. A magic item cannot enhance a monks already magically fast movement.

Another weak argument. "Magic" effects do stack. A magic item that gave a bonus to move that was similar in nature to the monk's movement woiuld probabaly not stack. Nowhere is it even implied that this bonus to movement rate is anything like the monk's movement - it comes from a totally different source. The boots won't stack, for example, with the Expeditious Rereat spell because that spell is used in making the boots.

Now if a 9th level or above monk was somehow required to be involved in hte making of tehse boots (and call them, say, "boots of monkish quickness" or something), then they would not stack with a monk's supernatural speed for sure.


The current FAQ ruling is silly, plain and simple.

 

[Artoomis]

In this case? Anyone who's read the FAQ.

-Hyp.

No, that's what was decided after the fact. This is Skip's opinion, that's all.

Okay, it's as offical as it gets, but, still, I don't think it's right. It's a bad ruling.