Borken Arms

[Theone0581]

Okay so last week my group had captured this person and we wanted him to not escape, so naturally we had bound his feet and hands with rope. Well he was dominated by some spell and was trying to escape from his bindings and slowly but surely he was getting the job done (taking 20). Good thing we had caught him doing so before he broke free. So I come up with an idea to brake his arms so that he wont be able to use them to break free. Now imagine your wrists are tied together behind your back, and the only way your arms move would be straightening your arms or moving your arms up resulting in your elbows being pointed outwards. So what I do is brake our prisoners arms by inverting his arms inwards so that his elbows are pointing inwards instead of outwards....very painful experience. Well after I do that, I leave him alone, and go back to sleep. (This is taking place at night). Well our DM saying that yet again he attempts to break free out of his bindings, and that the person keeping watch notices that his ropes are loosening up. I question the DM about his situation, as I cannot imagine being able to move my arms at all with such a fraction, he responds by telling me that just because your arms are broken does not mean you cant move them, and that he was dominated which results in him obeying the task no matter how painful it may be. Well in case you were wondering what had happen next, we managed to restrain his arms again and took care of what we needed with him in the morning.

What do you guys think about what happen (in regards to the arms to be broken, not what you would have done) should the prisoner have been able to move in order to loosen in bindings or should he have been paralyzed in his arms?

 

[Janx]

I think you're going to be stuck by what the GM thinks, especially since he was pretty much thwarting your reasonable solution to prevent escape.

By reasonable, I mean, that a person with broken arms is probably not going to be able to use them to escape. Not as in 'breaking somebody's arms is reasonable treatment for a prisoner"

I'm too lazy to look up the Dominate spell, but most charms don't force the victim to do something detrimental to themselves. Trying to strain with broken arms (causing pain and further injury) would qualify as not likely to be accepted by the victim.

Playing devil's advocate, if it was your PC in that chair, you'd be squirming with broken arms and legs, too.

Still, overall, the GM may have missed the point. You won. You captured the bad guy and tied him up. There is no problem with him still being there in the morning that the had to make the NPC try to escape all night, just to drag the game out.

You may have to ask more questions before you take action, and clearly declare your intent. For example:

Can we tie the NPC up so he can not escape?
No.
Would breaking his arms remove his ability to escape?
No.
So you're telling me that our party with 50 feet of rope cannot restrain one person who does not specifically have escape artist skills that we know of?
Yes.
No problem. I have 50 foot of rope in my trunk. If you can escape, then we'll break your arms and try it again. If you escape then, your ruling stands. If you fail to escape and refuse to recant your position, you're fired as GM.

Ultimately, there's rules for escaping bonds. It should come down to a die roll, or the GM should just say he's stuck. Anything else sounds like crappy GMing.

 

[Herobizkit]

In a game such as D&D, the specifics (and realities) of injuries are overshadowed by the Hit Point mechanic.

Having never had my arms broken in such a fashion, I can't tell you what's possible or not possible with such an injury.

In a world full of magic and wonder, the DM may have put a severe penalty on the escape attempt, or (more than likely) he had a 'scene' to play out in his head and wanted it to happen no matter what you did...

Bottom line:

* The DM is always (conditionally) right; let the DM make his call and then challenge him after the game to explain. There's a lot that goes on behind the screen that you just don't know about, including what's going on in your DM's head.

* D&D rules allow for all possibilities, no matter how impossible. Really thick stone walls have a break DC of 55; try rolling that on a 20. You can still TRY, though.

 

[Morrus]

I dunno. Your PC can likely fall 100 feet and get up and walk away. He can get stabbed repeatedly with a sword and be fine the next morning. I don't see any purpose in trying to apply realism to one isolated incident - the game has no rules for broken arms deliberately. Plus that sounds a little gross to me - are you playing evil characters?

I guess the mistake the DM made was not his not going along with the freakish broken arm tactic (again - really?); it was designing a scenario whereby it was important that a bad guy not be captured while allowing him to be captured - thus putting him in a dead end.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

well...what if he was using the broken bone to cut through the rope? OR USING HIS FEET! or he was actually a demon and NOT subject to broken bones the same way we are....just sayin

also...if a DM really wants a guy to escape, let him....because he is DM, if he really wanted to he could just throw a dragon at you and then, while the other guy escapes, you have to figh a dragon...and not get the hoard because, after all, it was a night and not in his lair


remember, arguing with the DM may be fun, but dying is not

 

[Wik]

I dunno. Humans have done some pretty crazy feats of endurance. I mean, just last week, I was able to walk up THREE FLIGHTS OF STAIRS immediately after stubbing my toe.

Hard.

Don't idolize me; I'm just one man.

To be serious, though, I've heard of some pretty crazy scenarios. Men getting shot in the head and never realizing it until thirty years later, when a routine MRI found a bullet lodged in the skull.

Hell, the girl from Jurassic Park did the entire film with a broken ankle, and hid it, because she figured if she let people know, they'd take her off the film and replace her with some other actress. So, next time you see that movie, remember that the little girl did almost that entire film with a broken ankle. And she wasn't under the influence of any compulsion spell - just natural human desire.

Hell, if I had two broken arms and someone I loved dearly needed me, I might be able to do it, pain or no pain. Never underestimate the human body's ability to escape constraints.

Especially if it owes you money.

 

[Starfox]

If we presume endless will (such as might be implied by the magic you mentioned), breaking someone's arms would actually make them better at dislocating their limbs to escape bonds. It is a little perverse, but quite feasible.

Just now reading Dave Duncan - The Gilded Chain / Lord of the Fire Lands / Sky of Swords trilogy, and this kind of thing would be typical of the Blades of that series.

As a final note, breaking the arms of a helpless prisoner like that is a cruel, evil action. I suppose your DM might just have decided not to let you profit by such cruelty.

 

[invokethehojo]

First off that was pretty grusome, might necessitate an alignment change.

I found myself having an argument one gaming session about whether or not one could fight with all their toes broken. What a great hobby we have

 

[Diamond Cross]

Breaking arms is an evil act. I'd rather drug the guy.

 

[Janx]

I am inclined to think the players intent to capture was reasonably good. When the gm made it clear he was going to escape, the players saw a tactical problem, not a moral one.

If players take time to capture and tie a npc with rope, yanking their chains further is asking for this kind of thing to happen.

For instance, the comment aboUt drugging him. What pc has drugs on hand to knock out somebody? Mine dont. But all of them can tie up a man and break his arms if need be.