Bottom 5 D&D and D20 items
- Thread starter Mortaneus
- Start date
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
dagger said:
What do I care what you think of a product? If it's worthless to me then it's worthless. Or do I have to put IMNSFHO before every post to avoid hurting sensitive feelings.
**unecessarily jerky response.
Last edited:
Mortaneus
First Post
Flexor the Mighty! said:
What do I care what you think of a product? If it's worthless to me then it's worthless. Or do I have to put IMNSFHO before every post to avoid hurting sensitive feelings.
Let's keep it civil, please.
Personally, despite their flaws, I've found the classbooks to be of great use, mainly because freaking everyone uses them (at least around here). What about them in particular didn't you like?
Furn_Darkside
First Post
*ding*
That does not appear to be true from your original post...
...but I can appreciate someone hijacking their own thread.
I am unsure from your post, but is the problem the editing or is it what Teflon Billy calls "power creeping"?
Editing: There was no excuse for this, but the bigger insult was some WOTC spokespeople claiming some of the mistakes were intentional. I can understand wanting to save face, but don't insult the intelligence of your buyers.
Power Creeping: I don't see any problem here. From the DMG we know PrC's are entirely dm option- and I think most of the feats were balanced if not too weak for their requirements. Some of the weapons were silly, but most were not.
You also have to remember that there was no formula for doing a "correct" class splat book. They had to take a stab at it and tweak the formula from there.
However, having said all of that, as a dm-
I have used S&F and T&B more then I have used any of the other class splat books. In fact, I can't recall using S&S or MotW yet. If they were the evolution of the splat books, then it is a shame they drifted so far from S&F.
I think the d20 companies have learned alot from WOTC's class book foray- and it can be seen in the quality books from FFG and Mongoose.
The book was not for you. The same way a driver's manual would be of little use to a nascar driver. You obviously have a clue.
I, as a dm, have found the book a nice little sampling of good ideas for npc's. The race/class section in particular.
FD
Mortaneus said:
That does not appear to be true from your original post...
...but I can appreciate someone hijacking their own thread.
I am unsure from your post, but is the problem the editing or is it what Teflon Billy calls "power creeping"?
Editing: There was no excuse for this, but the bigger insult was some WOTC spokespeople claiming some of the mistakes were intentional. I can understand wanting to save face, but don't insult the intelligence of your buyers.
Power Creeping: I don't see any problem here. From the DMG we know PrC's are entirely dm option- and I think most of the feats were balanced if not too weak for their requirements. Some of the weapons were silly, but most were not.
You also have to remember that there was no formula for doing a "correct" class splat book. They had to take a stab at it and tweak the formula from there.
However, having said all of that, as a dm-
I have used S&F and T&B more then I have used any of the other class splat books. In fact, I can't recall using S&S or MotW yet. If they were the evolution of the splat books, then it is a shame they drifted so far from S&F.
I think the d20 companies have learned alot from WOTC's class book foray- and it can be seen in the quality books from FFG and Mongoose.
The book was not for you. The same way a driver's manual would be of little use to a nascar driver. You obviously have a clue.
I, as a dm, have found the book a nice little sampling of good ideas for npc's. The race/class section in particular.
FD
Moe Ronalds
First Post
Mortaneus said:
What's so wrong with the hero builder's guidebook? I'm not a 'gaming veteran' so this may be my total newbie-ish-ness talking, but it was very useful when I first started playing and I still enjoy reading it just for entertainment.
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Re: Re: *ding*
I would love to hear the story about how that happened.
Was the spokesperson just taking a stance to cover WOTC?
Were they told to say that?
That goes down as one of the most infamous moments of 3rd edition. *chuckle*
FD
Tiefling said:
No kidding. Remember that guy claiming that the Halfling Outrider was SUPPOSED to have no BAB.
I would love to hear the story about how that happened.
Was the spokesperson just taking a stance to cover WOTC?
Were they told to say that?
That goes down as one of the most infamous moments of 3rd edition. *chuckle*
FD
Mortaneus
First Post
Found it! Check this one out, from Jan 16, 2001. It's in the middle.
Sword & Fist Chat Notes: Scooper "milspec" was kind enough to grab some of the questions and answers of Sword & Fist designer Jason Carl.
Q: How does Dirty Fighting work?
A: You make a single attack when using Dirty Fighting. If the attack is successful, you inflict your normal damage *plus an additional 1d4 damage.
***
Q: On the "Expert Tactician" feat, if I have the feat, and I'm in combat with opponents B and C, and B gets stunned (denied his dex bonus) can I use the extra action against C?
A: You could use the extra action against C *if* C were denied his Dex bonus -- the opponent that you attack using Expert Tactician must be denied his Dex bonus
***
Q: Why is the mercurial greatsword so unbalanced? It has one of the highest damage and crit modifiers there are. Exotic weapons usually have only one jump from a non-exotic one, so I was wonderingwhy the big gap on the jump.
A: The mercurial greatsword does 2d8 damage and has a Crit threshhold of x4. Is that "unbalanced?" That's a question for your DM to answer. It's certainly a very strong weapon. When we design new material for D&D, it's inevitable that some game elements -- feats, prestige classes, weapons, spells, etc. -- will be more appealing than others. Some weapon has to be at the top of the heap, after all.
***
Q: Shouldn't the Halfling Outrider get a base attack bonus increase?
A: The Halfling Outrider is the only prestige class in the book without a unique attack bonus. It's designed that way purposefully to reflect the fact that the class role is primarily that of a scout, not a combatant. I took a chance on that one. ;-)
***
Q: Does a rogue who is flanking someone with the "Eyes in the Back of your Head" feat get his sneak attack damage? I would say yes, from reading the rule, but it's not entirely clear.
A: I would say yes. The feat doesn't give you any benefit if you denied your Dex bonus (such as when you are caught flat-footed), and that implies that a rogue still gets his sneak attack damage against someone who has this feat -- even if the rogue is flanking that someone.
***
Q: for S&F Feats like Circle Kick and dirty fighting which say you have to take a full attack action to use them, do you get full iterative attacks with that action? or just a single attack?
A: If you use Circle Kick or Dirty Fighting, you get only one attack. If that attack is successful, you get a second attack. I originally considered having these feats work with each of a character's iterative attacks but our playtests demonstrated that wasn't a good idea. ;-)
***
Q: How does Lightning fists interact with Flurry of Blows?
A: Lightning Fists doesn't stack with Flurry of Blows. You make three attacks only, each at your base attack bonus, minus 5.
***
Q: How were the prices for the fortresses at the end of the book arrived at? Is there a metasystem involved, or were they more or less pulled out of the air as resonable costs?
A: The DMG has information about pricing -- we used this information, but in some cases we had to extrapolate some math based on the existing information.
***
Q: Should the fighter be able to use his bonus feats to get the S&F Feats? My house rule so far has been that he can, with the exception of the feats requiring monk levels or feats not on the fighter list (a total of 4 feats).
A: According to the Player's Handbook, the list of feats that a fighter can choose as bonus feats is very specific. The S&F feats don't appear on that list. Therefore, the S&F feats cannot be taken as a fighter's bonus feats.
***
Q: What's the reasoning behind the stump knife getting an increased threat range once it has wounded someone?
A: It's to reflect the fact that the stump knife is an extension of your body. Unlike a sword, for example, the stump knife is a part of your body. It's a way of modeling a very different way of fighting.
***
Q: On a Mantis Leap, is there a minimum distance that must be moved? It says that you use a charge attack, which normally has a 10' move requirement. And, does it use a standing jump, a running jump or both/either? Also, it says "normal damage, plus your Str modifier x2." Does this mean that a Str 12 individual with a shortsword does (1d6 + 1) + 2?
A: The distance that you move is a minimum of 10' plus the result of your Jump check; the type of jump is a standing jump; the damage inflicted is normal plus your Str modifier x2, so that a character with Str 12 and using a short sword would inflict 1d6 +2 damage.
***
Q: What project are you currently working on for WoTC?
A: Currently I'm working on a new release for the Forgotten Realms campaign. It's scheduled for release in November of this year--but that's all I can tell you about it, because it hasn't appeared on our public catalogue yet!
***
Q: Are there any plans to somehow increase the damage of a shuriken? Those things seem kinda weak, especially if you compare them to the damage they do in movies (yes, I realize movies have little or no base in reality)
A: Not that I'm aware of. The shuriken's advantage lies in its versatility as a weapon that's easy to hide, rather than the damage it can inflict.
***
Q: with the Off hand parry feat, it says you sacrifice all your off hand attacks for the round in exchange for a +2 dodge bonus, does that mean you still take the penalty to your primary attacks as if you were attacking with two weapons?
A: Yes.
Sword & Fist Chat Notes: Scooper "milspec" was kind enough to grab some of the questions and answers of Sword & Fist designer Jason Carl.
Q: How does Dirty Fighting work?
A: You make a single attack when using Dirty Fighting. If the attack is successful, you inflict your normal damage *plus an additional 1d4 damage.
***
Q: On the "Expert Tactician" feat, if I have the feat, and I'm in combat with opponents B and C, and B gets stunned (denied his dex bonus) can I use the extra action against C?
A: You could use the extra action against C *if* C were denied his Dex bonus -- the opponent that you attack using Expert Tactician must be denied his Dex bonus
***
Q: Why is the mercurial greatsword so unbalanced? It has one of the highest damage and crit modifiers there are. Exotic weapons usually have only one jump from a non-exotic one, so I was wonderingwhy the big gap on the jump.
A: The mercurial greatsword does 2d8 damage and has a Crit threshhold of x4. Is that "unbalanced?" That's a question for your DM to answer. It's certainly a very strong weapon. When we design new material for D&D, it's inevitable that some game elements -- feats, prestige classes, weapons, spells, etc. -- will be more appealing than others. Some weapon has to be at the top of the heap, after all.
***
Q: Shouldn't the Halfling Outrider get a base attack bonus increase?
A: The Halfling Outrider is the only prestige class in the book without a unique attack bonus. It's designed that way purposefully to reflect the fact that the class role is primarily that of a scout, not a combatant. I took a chance on that one. ;-)
***
Q: Does a rogue who is flanking someone with the "Eyes in the Back of your Head" feat get his sneak attack damage? I would say yes, from reading the rule, but it's not entirely clear.
A: I would say yes. The feat doesn't give you any benefit if you denied your Dex bonus (such as when you are caught flat-footed), and that implies that a rogue still gets his sneak attack damage against someone who has this feat -- even if the rogue is flanking that someone.
***
Q: for S&F Feats like Circle Kick and dirty fighting which say you have to take a full attack action to use them, do you get full iterative attacks with that action? or just a single attack?
A: If you use Circle Kick or Dirty Fighting, you get only one attack. If that attack is successful, you get a second attack. I originally considered having these feats work with each of a character's iterative attacks but our playtests demonstrated that wasn't a good idea. ;-)
***
Q: How does Lightning fists interact with Flurry of Blows?
A: Lightning Fists doesn't stack with Flurry of Blows. You make three attacks only, each at your base attack bonus, minus 5.
***
Q: How were the prices for the fortresses at the end of the book arrived at? Is there a metasystem involved, or were they more or less pulled out of the air as resonable costs?
A: The DMG has information about pricing -- we used this information, but in some cases we had to extrapolate some math based on the existing information.
***
Q: Should the fighter be able to use his bonus feats to get the S&F Feats? My house rule so far has been that he can, with the exception of the feats requiring monk levels or feats not on the fighter list (a total of 4 feats).
A: According to the Player's Handbook, the list of feats that a fighter can choose as bonus feats is very specific. The S&F feats don't appear on that list. Therefore, the S&F feats cannot be taken as a fighter's bonus feats.
***
Q: What's the reasoning behind the stump knife getting an increased threat range once it has wounded someone?
A: It's to reflect the fact that the stump knife is an extension of your body. Unlike a sword, for example, the stump knife is a part of your body. It's a way of modeling a very different way of fighting.
***
Q: On a Mantis Leap, is there a minimum distance that must be moved? It says that you use a charge attack, which normally has a 10' move requirement. And, does it use a standing jump, a running jump or both/either? Also, it says "normal damage, plus your Str modifier x2." Does this mean that a Str 12 individual with a shortsword does (1d6 + 1) + 2?
A: The distance that you move is a minimum of 10' plus the result of your Jump check; the type of jump is a standing jump; the damage inflicted is normal plus your Str modifier x2, so that a character with Str 12 and using a short sword would inflict 1d6 +2 damage.
***
Q: What project are you currently working on for WoTC?
A: Currently I'm working on a new release for the Forgotten Realms campaign. It's scheduled for release in November of this year--but that's all I can tell you about it, because it hasn't appeared on our public catalogue yet!
***
Q: Are there any plans to somehow increase the damage of a shuriken? Those things seem kinda weak, especially if you compare them to the damage they do in movies (yes, I realize movies have little or no base in reality)
A: Not that I'm aware of. The shuriken's advantage lies in its versatility as a weapon that's easy to hide, rather than the damage it can inflict.
***
Q: with the Off hand parry feat, it says you sacrifice all your off hand attacks for the round in exchange for a +2 dodge bonus, does that mean you still take the penalty to your primary attacks as if you were attacking with two weapons?
A: Yes.
Last edited:
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Mortaneus said:
Wow, I did not recall that that came from the designers, nor the last line:
I guess this goes under the file of this being an uncharted territory as a supplement.
Hmm. I can see his point, in the sense that people argue magical prestige classes should not get full spell progression.
Not that I think having no BAB at all is a good idea. haha.
FD
Similar Threads
