Bottom 5 D&D and D20 items

[Tiefling]

So far at least, the discussion here has been better than some reviews. There is a review of Foundation, for example, that just says "My five year old nephew could write this CRAP." That's the whole review.

Where? It sure ain't on ENWorld.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Personally, I think Sword & Fist and the Hero Builder's Guidebook both get a bad rap.

I agree with this and your points.

I have used S&F more then I have used most of the class splat books.

FD

 

[Morrus]

Where? It sure ain't on ENWorld.

If it's the one I think it is, it was removed.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

1. D&D PHB

2. All the Splat books. I don't think we have used a single one since they were bought. Worthless.

3. Foundation - that worthless supers book that came out back when.

4. Hero Builders Guidebook

5. Enemies & Allies. As a sub for the Rogues Gallery it's weak.

 

[Mortaneus]

The difference is a review should give a complete view of the product and why the reviewer did not care for it.

A list is just taking pot-shots at products, writers, and publishers- a good handful that come to these boards.

FD

I started this thread because, let's face it, there are some products out there that really ARE that bad. Products that should be avoided at all costs.

Unfortunatly, I don't have the time to go through and do a complete review of each. Besides, I'm merely stating my opinion. The products I listed are ones that I felt really badly burned on. I own every one of the ones on my list (except for foundation, thank god. A friend had the misfortune of picking that one up).

There are numerous threads over in the software forum about how burned people feel regarding e-tools, or negative threads about how messed up sword and fist is. The only difference is that I decided to list the ones that bug me the most in a single thread. How is this thread any different than any other?


On a side note, I originally was going to list the Bottom 10, to match the other thread. But guess what? I couldn't think of 10 publications worthy of being listed. Except for the ones in my bottom 5, I can't think of any supplements I've bought which have left me feeling burned enough to really complain about them (and my collection is huge).

I'd say that's a good indicator of the quality that IS on the market.

 

[Psion]

Personally, I think Sword & Fist and the Hero Builder's Guidebook both get a bad rap.

Indeed. S&F is easily one of the most used splat books IMC. Does it have problems? That's undeniable. But not enough problems to keep it from being useful. Further, are you really telling me you couldn't guess what the halfling outrider's BAB was supposed to be?

HBG was of some use introducing my wife to the game. Further, there are some supposed veterans out there who REALLY need the alignment test really bad. I would say you know who you are, but chances are that you don't.

I'll add to this another much maligned WotC product: Enemies & Allies. It was a great source of quick, detailed NPCs and has seen a fair amount of use.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

The products I listed are ones that I felt really badly burned on.

Then maybe you should make it a habit to read reviews before buying a book.

How is this thread any different than any other?

They are discussions on individual products.

This is a list of products you regret buying.

The former could help someone decide if they want to purchase a product or not. They could also help people who purchased a book to find additional use in it, or warn them of areas of concern.

If someone bases a decision of purchase on a mini-rant/list, then they are probably sheep in the first place and will lose their money soon enough.

Unfortunatly, I don't have the time to go through and do a complete review of each.

You could have done one in the time you put this topic together, and probably another by the time you are done replying to it.

Besides, I'm merely stating my opinion.

Ok. Did I say you shouldn't? Or that this topic should be shut down?

Nope. I just said it was in bad taste. Opinions can be that way.

I'd say that's a good sign for the d20 system.

I would rather not judge the success of d20 by its failures.

FD

 

[dagger]

Give me a freaking break, just because you think a product is worthless, that does not mean it is.

 

[Mortaneus]

My purpose behind posting this thread was to generate intelligent discussion. I had hoped to get involved in a discussion regarding the perceived flaws (and possible merits) of several publications that I personally greatly disliked.

I was also hoping to hear other people's opinions on products that they felt were far below par.

So far, quite a few of the posts in this thread are of that nature, and I'm enjoying them immensely.

Let's please keep this a discussion of poster's opinions regarding the products, not a discussion of people's right to have and express those opinions. I've seen too many threads closed down because of that very reason. As for this being in poor taste, I consider it no more so than anything else on these boards. If that, however, is your opinion, then I can respect that.



Anyway, back on topic, I guess the reason that sword and fist struck me as being so bad was the sheer lack of quality control. WotC had been graced with the most popular rpg system in gaming history, and, up till that point, they were working wonders with it. The Players Handbook was inspired. The DMG was a work of art. The Monster Manual was an example of what had been missing for all those years.

The work WotC was doing on D&D was turning into an epic symphony. Then Sword and Fist came out, and struck one heck of a sour note. True, it has been errata'd beyond belief since then, but it still set a really bad tone for the classbooks, a problem which was compounded by such things as the speed enhancement for armor, and the sheer blandness of Song and Silence, and only finally truly remedied by Masters of the Wild.

The hero builders guidebook was pure fluff, in my opinion.

Psion: I haven't picked up Enemies & Allies, nor the Stronghold Builder's guide. They didn't strike me as being all that useful. What are people's opinions on these two? Are people actually using them? If so, in what way?

 

[Psion]

Enemies and allies is wall-to-wall NPC ideas with stat blocks, from the generic to the specific. When it came out it was pretty widely derided.

The ideas therein didn't knock my socks off, but it has proven useful in providing me with some complete and well fleshed out NPCs when I needed them.

Stronghold Builder's Guidebook didn't impress me, but some of my players liked it. (shrug). Seems mechanically solid enough. Just seems boring to me.