Bottom 5 D&D and D20 items

[jollyninja]

and here i was hoping this thread would have something to do with it's topic. i actually wanted to read what products other people hate. and weither you like it or not i'm posting mine.

1: rings of power. i bought it right around the time of the lord of the rings release. never have i regretted a purchase so much. two pages of poorly written hyperdrama "history" accompanies each ring. boo.

2: mythic races. unbalanced ecl's. if it was playtested at all, i would be shocked. this wreaks of "i have a life now, why would i play the game i write for?" syndrome. if the author does still play i apologise but then must question the ability of said person to produce sane materials for publication.

3: song and silence. everything i hoped for was missing from the book. all that was good about the complete thiefs handbook or the complete bard's handbook was absent. i had high hopes for this one but alas it sucked.

4: hero builder's guidebook. i'm sure it's great for newbies but i have only picked it up once after my second read through. it is useless to me but i feel no anger toward the authors.

5: the quintessential fighter. the jousting rules were ok but the weapons, prestige classes and everything else in the book wreaks of munchkin. i am surprised it is number 5 on my list but due to the fact that i do use a small part of it it did not rate higher. i realise it's a fighter book but come on. i love the rest of the series but wow this one irks me.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The main reason threads like this end up not working is because of what we've seen so far in this one - when someone states they think something is worthless, it seems to invite a much more hostile reaction than if the topic is what people do like. People do disagree on "best of" or "favorite" threads, but they get much more riled much quicker in a "what I hate" thread. While this thread hasn't degenerated into a flat-out flamewar, I think we can see how easily it could happen.

Anyway, I think the Hero Builder's Guidebook get a very bad rap. It's designed for people not as experienced with the game, and many veterans judged it based on how it related to them. That wasn't its purpose.

Enemies & Allies is a great book, not just underrated, but very unfairly judged. It does exactly what we expected it to do - provide premade NPCs. Very handy book.

The splat books also get a very bad, unfair rap. Yeah, S&F had a lot of typos. But the material itself was not that bad, conceptually. People judge WotC's books much more harshly than any other company's, relative to how good the books really are. A book by WotC that is given tepid or negative reviews would, in my opinion, most likely be hailed as a masterpiece from another company - or at least given a fairly positive review. However...

...I very clearly remember the whole "the Outrider's lack of BAB was intentional" bizarreness. I was very disappointed with WotC's handling of this - it gave me far less confidence in believing anything they said, like "there are no plans for further layoffs."

 

[Tsyr]

Hmm...

1) Burning Shaolin: I wanted to like this product, I really did... but the touted Feng Shui-esq mechanics just didn't pan out as anything special.

2) The Diablo books: It didn't feel, mechanicly, like Diablo II in the slightest.

3) Hero Builders Guidebook: I guess it's ok... I just wish it hadn't been the first non-core book WotC put out. There was nothing here that a gamer who had ever played before would need, which I guess was sorta the intent, but... I dunno. I just feel that some of htis could have been put in the PHB and eliminated the need for the book.

4) Defenders of the Faith: I dunno... I just felt this was the weakest of the class books, myself

 

[ColonelHardisson]

3) Hero Builders Guidebook: I guess it's ok... I just wish it hadn't been the first non-core book WotC put out. There was nothing here that a gamer who had ever played before would need, which I guess was sorta the intent, but... I dunno. I just feel that some of htis could have been put in the PHB and eliminated the need for the book.

I agree. I would have actually liked to see both the PHB and DMG expanded to include material like this.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

The main reason threads like this end up not working is because of what we've seen so far in this one - when someone states they think something is worthless, it seems to invite a much more hostile reaction than if the topic is what people do like. People do disagree on "best of" or "favorite" threads, but they get much more riled much quicker in a "what I hate" thread. While this thread hasn't degenerated into a flat-out flamewar, I think we can see how easily it could happen.

Another concern of mine about this kind of thread is that our message boards are enriched due to how many publishers and writers post here. This kind of topic could possibly damage that.

If someone feels the need to state the poor nature of a product, then write a review. One sentence explanations for why a product is one of the "worst" d20 products doesn't seem quite fair.

FD

 

[mearls]

Another concern of mine about this kind of thread is that our message boards are enriched due to how many publishers and writers post here. This kind of topic could possibly damage that.

I can't speak for every pro and I sure as heck can't speak for the publishers, but my take on negativity is that as long as a poster has a reasonable problem with a book I worked on, I like to hear about it. It's easy for a design team to get a bit too wrapped up in its own preferences to see what the general gaming public wants.

As long as criticisms aren't couched as insults, I don't mind hearing them at all. The rule of thumb I've always used is "Would I speak this post aloud to the designer if I met him in person?"

 

[Furn_Darkside]

As long as criticisms aren't couched as insults, I don't mind hearing them at all. The rule of thumb I've always used is "Would I speak this post aloud to the designer if I met him in person?"

You may be asking too much from internet posters. *chuckle*

While I, possibly, have your eye- any planned updates of Digital Eidolon?

It has been a good resource for the CoC/Spycraft game I am putting together.

FD

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah but we all know you do good work Mike! I don't toss stones at glass houses though. I just know what I like and don't like.

 

[Tiefling]

Nothing wrong with tossing stones at glass houses per se. If you live in one, though... oh boy, don't get me started.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I would say the only thing I have purchased that I didn't like was Song and Silence. It just seemed so....bland. Nothing in it grabbed me and said 'THIS is why this book was made'. I got that feeling from all the other classbooks - including and especially Sword and Fist (easily the most used classbook for my group). The Fang of Lolth was the best thing in the book and it really can only be used for NPCs (imagine that thing in the picutre trying to pick pockets at the local tavern!) Even saying that it was still not a clever and/or well designed PrC. The new equipment just seemed to be silly - compare the 'lock picks on sticks' with almost anything from the Complete Thieves Handbook for second edition. Say what you will about 2E but that Handbook was one of TSR's best products.


Anyway I wanted to show why I didn't like Song & Silence rather than just writing 'it sucked' and moving on.



Oh and I also regret having got the Psionics Handbook. Not that I didn't love it and think it was an excellent way to bring psionics seemlessly into D&D - but I spent $40 on it and have never gotten to use it either as a DM or player

I need Piratecat's 'Of Sound Mind' adventure!