[BoVD, BoEF, Vile] Where do you say "unacceptable?"

[LuciusT]

Heck of a topic to delurk on...

My campaign is pretty mature. All the players are over 21 and are comfortable with it... which is the important thing. After all, the goal is to have fun.

NUDITY: Happens a lot in my games. I can't count the number of times a party has been ambushed at night and had someone come rushing out of their tent/room/bedroll, sword drawn and naked as a newborn. Always leads to great rp moments after the battle when folks finally notice that so-and-so is nude.

SEX: Happens a lot. We usually have at least one sexual relationship going on between party members and at least one fellow with a barmaid in every town. The sex act itself is never rp-ed but crude comments and R rated jokes are not unknown. Also, these are the folks who usually end fighting nude during ambushes.

NECROPHILIA, BEASTIALITY: Has never come up.

INTERSPECIES SEX: Lately, all my campaigns have been in human only worlds.

VIOLENCE: We usually have at least one combat a session. After all, there are whole chapters of rules related to various forms of violence and bloodshed. While I have had some games in which we didn't have a combat for many sessions, I admit I enjoy a good heroic battle.

TORTURE, MUTILATION, also RAPE: It happens. I've found that players really love to hate a bad guy and those worse he is the more they enjoy defeating him. Some of my villians are seriously evil and they do seriously evil things. The level of detail with which these things are described depends on the comfort level of the group.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

RACISM/FASCISM: Occurs in some cultures, generally representing a Lawful Evil society.

NUDITY IN MY GAMES: Yes, in the same vein as a Vallejo or Royo painting.

NUDITY IN MY BOOKS: In context, sure. Complete nudity of either sex is fine in the regard. Out of context is just gratuitous no matter how well drawn.

SEX IN MY GAMES: Often leading up to... Sometimes a character will have certain traits (tender, ravenous, etc.) that are described in order to give more depth to the character, but the actual "mechanics" aren't described.

SEX IN MY BOOKS: As above.

POLYGAMY: Some cultures are fine with it, others aren't.

NON-MARITAL COUPLINGS: Most cultures are fine with it assuming pregnancy doesn't occur. A few cultures promote such instead of marraige.

PREGNANCY: Occurs rarely.

HOMOSEXUALITY: NPC only (thus far). Accepted and condoned in most societies.

MENTAL ILLNESS: Often (Lovecraft-based themes are pointless without it)

NECROPHILIA: Villainous act or insanity.

BESTIALITY: Villainous act or insanity.

INTER-SPECIES SEX: Not often. No half-breeds in current (psientific) campaign, so when it does occur, it's usually "kink".

INCEST: Most often a villainous act or insanity. At least one depraved culture in my campaign actually condones it.

VIOLENCE: Described well.

TORTURE: Methodology described enough to indicate extent and reasoning (and, if occuring to a PC, to help the player determine post-traumatic effects).

MUTILATION: As torture.

RAPE: Would be handled as sex if occured to a PC (has not happened yet). PCs have walked-in on a rape, so it was described enough for the PCs to know what was occuring.

CHILD MOLESTATION/ABUSE: Villainous act or insanity.

DIABOLIC/DEMONIC CONTENT: Lots.

EVIL PCs: Yes, following the Moorcock/Cook Anti-Hero models, not the "we're eeevvvviiiillll so we'll kiiiillll everything like idiots" model.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Where do I say "unacceptable?"

NUDITY IN MY GAMES: Well, none of the players strip nude (Thank God) so nudity is restricted to such things as a player saying: "I'm going to make sure my claim-stone is in my necklace pouch after I strip down so I can go to the steam baths." or me saying: "The nude woman runs out of the bushes and begins babbling at you with an exhalted look on her face." I don't do descriptions of breast size and stuff like that. Although, once, I was asked if "the curtians matched the rug" when they were looking for an assassin with dark blue hair, and rumors had pointed them to the "Pervasive Joy Streambaths"

NUDITY IN MY BOOKS: I spent a lot of time in Europe, and nudity doesn't really bother me. To me, having nudity in books can either be tasteful and applicable (Some of the ancient religious paintings depicted women with naked breasts and/or buttocks) or immature and gratutitous (have a Hustler Centerfold painting inside of a creature book). I might put it in one of my books, if I think it is applicable, but for the most part, heroes are pretty much fully clothed (armor, bracers, rings, capes, girdles, boots, hats, etc etc etc)

SEX IN MY GAMES: Handled tastefully. It happens. PC's pick up on NPC's and vice versa. It's not a campaign center, but it's handled tastefully.

SEX IN MY BOOKS: No thanks. I'm buying/writing a gaming book, not a porn novel.

NECROPHILIA: Two actual categories. I do handle it, my villians are often dyed in the wool creatures of evil.
Sex With The Dead: Some of my villians do engage in necrophilia. Once with a dead player character to desecrate the body in a manner most foul. I don't describe it or anything, but some of my players investigate like they are part of a magical CSI. One PC has ranks in Profession: Mortician, and Profession: Autopsy, and Knowledge (Biology, Anatomy & Law) and that player will ask: "Was the corpse sexually attacked in life, or in death."
Sex With The Undead: One of the Legendary Characters (A 43rd Level Mage) was hit upon by an Elder Lich King (female NPC, but still the correct title was King) who was not only undead, but all the decayed flesh had been removed, and the bones plated in precious metals. We're talking a creature that had been alive for over 10,000 years, and ruled a vast empire.
Seriously, what was the PC Mage supposed to do. The player said: "Ick." but the PC said: "You offer intrigues me, shall we retire to more discreet locales?" and it was dropped from there. Some villians have undead lovers, some undead villians have living lovers.
But we handle it like adults, not with disgusting and/or graphic descriptions.

BESTIALITY: Never really come up, but there has been hints to it here and there. One PC was described as having an "Unhealthy Attraction to Sheep"

INTER-SPECIES SEX: As in Elf/Orc? Hey, we're talking intelligent creatures here. I know people in real life, that if given a chance, would have sex with a kobold just to see what it was like, why shouldn't some of the NPC's enjoy interspecies sex? One PC was attracted only to Orcs, Half-Orcs and Humans. A halfling.

PREGNANCY: Hmm. It happens. Since some PC's get married, it does occur. How it is handled depends upon the alignment and personality of the character. The CE female Blackguard simply had it aborted. The LG female wizard, who was married, refused to adventure, and the player got to play a temporary character while time passed in the campaign world.
But I'm not going to describe what a birth looks like. I've watched 3 kids being born. No need to traumatize my single players.

HOMOSEXUALITY: Hey, PC's and NPC's and on some occassions, players have been Bisexual or homosexual. Handle it like an adult, without being insulting, or zip the lip.

INCEST: Brought up now and again. The ruler of the Empire of Von-Lon killed his father so he could marry his mother. The Emperor's sister killed the mother, and took her place, leaving a married brother/sister set of rulers. Not uncommon in history, why should it be uncommon in the setting?

POLYGAMY: LOL In the Kargahst Empire, women own all of the property besides weapons and war material. They often have 3-6 husbands. Same with the Emirates of Kalavash, where women have harems of men. Of course, it is also the other way around in many other countries. In some places in the setting, there's what is called a "Bonded Grouping", which is 2-10 husbands and 2-10 wives ALL married to one another (this is a nation where bisexuality is normal). Polygamy is not that big of a deal, and since the end of the Second Lich King War, where there are fewer men, it is not uncommon for several women to share a man.

VIOLENCE: Ummm, it's a game that for many people, centers around hacking someone's liver out. Violence is there, but we don't use it gratuitously.

TORTURE: Happens. Bad guys are evil for a reason. ANd some "good" churches engage in it against "heritics". It happened with the medieval churches in our world, it happens with some of the churches in my fantasy setting. I in no way encourage the players to do it, but they have.
Including our Modern d20 Game, where a combination truth serums, hallucinagenics, electricity and a knife was used to extract the location of a nerve agent dispenser in Seattle.

MUTILATION: Hmmm. Define mutalation. Is it: "Now that I've killed that @#%@#$%, I'm cutting off his head and sticking it on the end of my lance! @#*$&^@. I hated him!" or "The King orders the traitors head to be put on a pike outside the castle walls." or "The man is missing an ear and a hand, and sidles close to you, an unnatural gleam in his remaining eye." type?

CHILD MOLESTATION/ABUSE: Personally, I try to aviod this topic. A PC who engages this get the player looked at seriously. I don't care if he's won a golden plated apartment complex for his gaming skills, the PC's are supposed to be heroes, not child rapists.
NPC's, however, may engage in that activity. Not described, but the hint: "Markus Illavius is listed as having bought several dozen children in the last 2 years from the Red City slave auctions. These were prepubescent children, usually exotics from other lands." is usually enough to end up with that NPC being on the recieving end of some violence, brutality, and maybe even torture.

MENTAL ILLNESS: In a world with psions, mind affecting magics, and creatures that attack the mind, not to mention the Second Lich King War and the 9th Humaniod War, mental illness happens. Milkpond Weed helps keep paranioa (even magically or curse inflicted, including just physical damage) under control.
We've addressed it, and the players aren't horrified.

SACRIFICE: I have rules for Blood Sacrifices and other ritual practices, and it occurs in the campaign setting. The PC's don't engage in it, but they have stopped many a cult from sacrificing someone.

IN CLOSING
For the most part, I won't do anything in the game that would make my players uncomfortable, and even though I could write Vile stuff that would cause people walking by the bookstore to burst into flames, and people just logging onto the internet to have thier eyeballs melt, doesn't mean I am going to.
The question is not: Can I do it. Instead it is: Should I do it.
I can strip naked and dance on the Interstate with a black plastic bag over my head. Doesn't mean I'm going to.

I think that's the biggest line I have. Don't make the players or consumer uncomfortable.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I think I can reply succinctly:

I can and will use these elements when I think they're appropriate - but I won't linger on them, or describe them in detail. My players are all mature enough to deal with them openly - even topics like Neil Gaiman's story "Blood and Glass" - but I don't want to violate anyone's comfort level, or delve into immaturity in front of my players. (In private? Different subject.)

I primarily avoid trying to force players into roles or positions they dislike. For example, when planning a campaign I try to think out in advance the rules that govern women in that culture. I prefer adventuring lands to have a more open attitude towards professional women than has been seen in our world, even up to modern day. If a character wants to play a Paksenarrion - took up the sword to avoid an unwanted marriage - that's their choice; I wouldn't tell them the world has to work that way.

And a side digression - I always assumed that half-dragons, half-fiends, etc., mostly came from interactions between humans and monsters shapeshifted into human form. Frequently the human parent is quite surprised at the nature of their offspring. I would be unlikely to use half-dragon allosauri in my games.

 

[Arnwyn]

SEX IN MY GAME-SESSIONS: No, too much of a distraction. Really.

Ba-dum *bing*!

 

[Samnell]

No global definitions of unacceptability on anything whatsoever. I wouldn't do something if I knew it would hit a certain player's sensibilities way out of whack, but that's as much a context issue as any in-game consideration. I would be comfortable doing things as an NPC or PC in some situations that I would never do in others. Nothing in an act itself suggests to me it should never be used in a game. The context of the game is the deciding factor.

EDIT: Of course what I personally find acceptable in real life is a different story, but we're talking about things fictional characters do to other fictional characters.

 

[Buttercup]

Re: Re: [BoVD, BoEF, Vile] Where do you say "unacceptable?"

NUDITY IN MY GAMES: I haven't used it for sexual purposes. Similar to the "you awake in a dungeon, stark naked" situation mentioned above.

NUDITY IN MY BOOKS: Depends. I think the Avalanche Press covers are exploitative, and those women aren't even nude. On the other hand, tasteful nudity doesn't bother me at all.

SEX IN MY GAMES: Implied, but not acted out. I am completely uninterested in roleplaying sex in my games.

SEX IN MY BOOKS: In novels, I don't mind, as long as it's well done. In game books, I'm not so interested.

NECROPHILIA: I haven't used it to date, but I won't rule it out. If I do use it, though, it will be off camera.

BESTIALITY: Yuck! Never.

INTER-SPECIES SEX: As with sex generally, implied is ok, but let's not go into detail.

PREGNANCY: In my current campaign, the players are going to have to help a pregnant NPC get to safety. This probably won't happen until they gain a few levels, but it's part of one of the plot threads.

HOMOSEXUALITY: I treat this like any in-game relationship. Keep the graphic details off camera, and only implied.

INCEST: Haven't used it. Probably won't ever use it. It's just too icky.

POLYGAMY: Strictly an evil empire sort of thing.

VIOLENCE: Well, D&D is about killing things and taking their stuff, right? If the players go around choping enemies to bits, they're going to get blood and gore on themselves, and if they don't clean up they're going to stink pretty badly. I don't hesitate to mention these things.

TORTURE: Evil NPCs do this. The players better not if they want to be back for the next session.

MUTILATION: Well, one of the players threatened to cut off the hand of another player if he found it in his pocket ever again. I'm working on a criminal code right now, and I think it won't be all that civilized.

CHILD MOLESTATION/ABUSE: Slavery exists IMC, and there are many child slaves. No way am I going to describe child abuse or molestation though. Never.

MENTAL ILLNESS: It will probably come up eventually.

Generally, I think that it's important to make the bad guys actually be bad. I don't mean "bad table manners and stealing money from the church collection box" bad, I mean truly evil and rotten. And people like that do despicable things. While I won't describe all of those things in lurid detail, I'll make it clear they're happening. If I had any minors at the gaming table, I would tone things down a bit. But we're all adults, so it's no big deal.

 

[LostSoul]

NUDITY IN MY GAMES: As long as it's in character, that's cool.

NUDITY IN MY BOOKS: Cool. Just how big was Conan, anyways?

SEX IN MY GAMES: 3rd person. I play with guys, and I don't want to feel as though I'm hitting on them, or vice-versa.

SEX IN MY BOOKS: Sex is a vital part of life, and as such should be dealt with in every book! (I would like that to be true, but I don't expect it.) As long as sex is done with a fine hand in said books, everything should be cool.

NECROPHILIA: Sometimes necessary for the evil (should that be Vile?) characters in your game, both PC and NPC.

BESTIALITY: See above.

INTER-SPECIES SEX: See "SEX IN MY GAMES".

VIOLENCE: As real as possible, in the right circumstances. If you want to point out the fact that the people the PCs are killing are people, not just trees in a forest, you go deep into the gore. Otherwise (ie. for mooks), a simple description of how the offender is put down (a stab through the heart! he falls) is good enough.

TORTURE: Depending on the ability of the players to handle such material and the point the DM is trying to make, it can range from off-screen screams or %100 description.

MUTILATION: As TORTURE above.

CHILD MOLESTATION/ABUSE: Insinuated. Direct if the players ask directly.



Nice work, Sigil.

 

[Dark Mistress]

NUDITY IN MY GAMES: It has happened in my games for a varity of reasons. It is never a focus but neither is it shyed away from.

NUDITY IN MY BOOKS: Depends on how it is used, typical I can take it or leave it to find it enhances it. If we are talking art work depends on the art. My fav artist is Louis Royo.

SEX IN MY GAMES: It happens, we play things up until they get serious then fade to black. Though we typical pick up the morning after in the room.(espicaly if the PC's partner robed them blind)

SEX IN MY BOOKS: Once again I either don't care or think it can make things better. There is very few fantasy books with out implied sex in them.

NECROPHILIA: As a general rule no but some exceptions, such as vampires, a really twisted necromancer.

BESTIALITY: It has never come up in any of the games I have been in.

INTER-SPECIES SEX: Same as regular sex.

PREGNANCY: Never had a PC as such yet. Though NPC's have been sometimes by a PC. In fact a second game was played where the players played the children, nephew, neices ect of the orginal PC's.

HOMOSEXUALITY: I treat it just like any other form of sex. In my world some societs are open to it, others not.

INCEST: Never came up in a game.

POLYGAMY: It has occured in my games, once more it depends ont he culture of the area.

VIOLENCE: More so than many I know but still not overly graphic.

TORTURE: It has come up and handled maturely.

MUTILATION: It has happened.

CHILD MOLESTATION/ABUSE: It has never been brought up in game though I have had PC's with that as a background.

MENTAL ILLNESS: I have no problem with it as long as it is handled maturely and done as the tradagy it really is.

A note the group I play with is very mature, the youngest is 28, we handled a great many subjects and as long as they are handled respectfully and maturely i really don't have a problem with them.

 

[Kai Lord]

The subject matter in my games is pretty much on par with what we've seen in the Lord of the Rings films, with an extra dash of over the top gore or brief nudity. So maybe closer to Braveheart.

The gore isn't really sought after, more the result of "you just knocked the orc down to -28 hit points. Dude you cut him in half."

And:

"When you arrive home, you find your wife naked and very happy to see you, you have an incredible night of passion."

If anyone wanted to give it much thought they could picture it like a hard R-rated film, but its just as easy to imagine the PG-13 variety, where the characters have their love scene, and you know they're naked, but they're framed in a way that nothing is actually seen. And that's how we leave it. But sex does occur, because the pursuit of love interests are frequent plot devices, and when you play characters who have relationships in their day to day lives, it sometimes adds to the verisimilitude to make mention of it.

As for nudity in game books, I don't feel its appropriate but I have accepted it in the past if its very infrequent and doesn't call a lot of attention to itself (the 1E MM succubus, etc.) Any current or future product with so much pornography that the entire work itself can be classified as "porn" has never and will never come anywhere near my gaming table.

Necrophilia and beastiality, never. Torture, rare and brief in the event that it does occur.