[BoVD]Well, since I can't seem to post this on Wizards forums...

[barsoomcore]

My belief that people improve themselves by roleplaying "good" behavior and degrade themselves by playing "evil" behavior is mutually exclusive from the belief that people benefit from playing "evil" characters.

Is this all you have to say on the issue of catharsis and the need to confront evil that I brought up in my above post "The Value of Vile"? I'm a little disappointed -- I was looking forward to your comments on those ideas.

a family friendly game would create more sales.

Not necessarily. See my post in the "Family Game?" thread about risk versus reward both in the film industry and gaming. Although this conversation ought to stay on that thread since this thread has really been more about the moral values of vile, rather than the appropriate business direction for Hasbro to be taking.

 

[SemperJase]

But this is precisely why, no matter how strenuously you insist that you're not moralizing or taking a superior tone, people will read that in what you write, no matter how flowery you make it.

I am moralizing. So are people on the other side of the debate. According to their morals, evil characters are good.

As for being superior, let me clarify. I do not claim to be superior. I claim that this moral code of playing only good characters is superior. There is a difference. It is a superior moral code that makes people better.

 

[RobNJ]

I am moralizing. So are people on the other side of the debate. According to their morals, evil characters are good.

As for being superior, let me clarify. I do not claim to be superior. I claim that this moral code of playing only good characters is superior. There is a difference. It is a superior moral code that makes people better.

My point is that you can't possibly not offend people when you take the kind of tone you do, no matter how you try to disguise it. Many people are going to find it inheritly offensive. I'm trying not to reciprocate, but it's why such discussions can almost never be polite and well-reasoned. At best you get the sense the person you're talking to is smiling and nodding at you like a retarded child and saying, "Well, I'm sure with your limited faculties you beleive you're right; I forgive you for being so limited."

 

[SemperJase]

Is this all you have to say on the issue of catharsis and the need to confront evil that I brought up in my above post "The Value of Vile"? I'm a little disappointed -- I was looking forward to your comments on those ideas.

Sorry to disappoint barsoomcore . I was trying to avoid being redundant.

I disagree with your source. If you go to a sports psychologist to improve your performance, he will tell you to visual success. You are what you practice to be. Now you may not become a murder, but you will be practicing mistreatment of others. If you view yourself as someone who wants to improve the world around you, you won't get there by practicing oppression.

I also base this on my personal observations. I have not yet met a gamer who enjoys playing evil characters that I find trustworthy. Would you trust the guy who likes to roleplay a rapist as a baby sitter with your daughter?

 

[RobNJ]

I also base this on my personal observations. I have not yet met a gamer who enjoys playing evil characters that I find trustworthy. Would you trust the guy who likes to roleplay a rapist as a baby sitter with your daughter?

Would you trust--oh, I don't know--Clive Barker or Stephen King with your child? Assuming you knew them as people of course and found nothing else horrible about them other than what they wrote?

If you write a story about a rapist or play a rapist in a film, only silly people would believe that you are a rapist. Same thing here.

 

[SemperJase]

My point is that you can't possibly not offend people when you take the kind of tone you do, no matter how you try to disguise it. Many people are going to find it inheritly offensive.

Well, don't be offended Rob. I am fully disclosing my biases and motivations.

To claim that others in this debate are not trying to convince others that their position is morally superior is to be willfully ingnorant. Of course people like Buttercup and Barsoomcore believe their position is morally superior. That is why they make the choices they do.

Now I would be insulting them if I thought they held a position they believed to be morally inferior.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Depends on who it is. My brother likes to play evil PC's on occasion. I'd let him babysit, hell I babysit his kid on occasion.

 

[SemperJase]

If you write a story about a rapist or play a rapist in a film, only silly people would believe that you are a rapist. Same thing here.

The difference between this example and our discussion is that an author writing about a character in a book is different from identifiying and personalizing the actions of a character you roleplay.

Generally, the author is describing the actions of someone else and presents that as a conflict to be overcome. Now the person who writes rapist fantasies disturbs me. I don't find that person trustworthy.

 

[Buttercup]

I agree. I do believe my position to be morally superior.

Ok. I figured that you did. I was just trying to be polite.

I appreciate that I hit a nerve though. That tells me there is something worth debating.

Not exactly. It tells you that you offend people by telling them how to live their lives and how to think. It might surprise you to know that I don't allow evil PCs in my games. I'm not interested in DMing an evil campaign. Nor am I interested in playing an evil PC (evil NPCs are necessary). But in spite of your protestations to the contrary, you have advocated censorship. That offends me. Your high horse offends me.

I give up. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[alsih2o]

You are what you practice to be.

so, does this mean you, and everyone else in a good campaign are vigilante thugs? magicians? sword weilders?

i personally have played many space games without turning into an astronaut, and have as yet to cast a spell, weild a sword or heal someone by calling on a god......