Bow feats for a psion?

[Graf]

Due to the shift to 3.5 I have some different configuration options with a relatively new character. He's a psion (nomad) who isn't really optimized for combat in a game that is pretty combat oriented (we're mercenaries). So I'd like to pull my weight in combat and I need to choose how much should I focus on the bow... and in what way.

The character is fundamentally a psion (though I picked up a level of psywar because we are all trained mercs and it was that or a level of fighter).

Half-elf (but in our game 1/2 elves use the elf stats and elves aren't a PC race). The actual 1/2 elf stats are for 'elf-blooded humans'.
Str 8, Dex 20, Con 8, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 13
No magic items beyond healing potions.
We're using Mindscapes, so I have secondary disiplines (one unselected the other is Psychometabolism/Str), some extra psionic feats (1st, 5th, 10th, etc) and slightly more powers. Being a nomad my movement abilities are already quite remarkable. With a little bit of prep I can move at over 50 (or 70 if going downhill)

The only combat related power I have is Metaphysical weapon (OK and the 0 level talent Lesser Natural armor). Generally I have a violent number of psionic points (11) and just metaphysical up everyone's weapons all the time, then run around with a bow plunking away.

My early feats were taken up with Psionic Body (basically Mind Over Body for psionics) and Manifesting Protegy (bonus psion feat -- Dex is treated as 22 for purposes of manifesting powers).

So here's the problem, despite the +6 to hit (with metaphysical arrows) I hit infrequently when it matters most -- because I lack precise shot and thus take a -4 penalty whenever one of my party members is threatening (i.e. close to) a foe.

I'm 3rd level now, and I made a bad feat selection for my bonus psy warrior feat. However the DM is allowing us to redo characters because of 3.5. Never having used the feat it'll be fine if I change it. I just turned 3rd level.

Option 1:
Psy Warrior bonus feat: Point Blank Shot
3rd level feat: Precise shot
the "problem" is that I'm still doing 1d8 points of damage a round (long bow 1d8 +1 meta -1 low strength).

Option 2:
Psy Warrior bonus feat: Point Blank Shot
3rd level feat: Rapid shot
This is kind of the route I'd like to go, if I start Meta-ing my bow then with rapid shot my bab is +6* and the potential damage output doubles to 2d8 (with more chances to get the x3 crit).
*5 (dex) + 1 (bab) +2 (meta bow and arrow) -2 (rapid). Or +7 within 30ft.

Option 3:
Realize that I'm not really going to do this bow thing, and be a inefficient participant in combat until the mid levels. Focus on psionics. (This was where I was going originally but after last game I'm not sure that this will be so effective given how much of the game is going to be combat).

Option 4:
Something else, that I haven't thought of.

All three are equally good for the character from a roleplaying standpoint. I expect my primary combat action for most of the game will continue to be shooting at things with a bow.
The game will have only 9 sessions before the DM returns to NZ. So for better or for worse I'll be pretty amazing if we even get to 6th level.

Suggestions?
Anybody who's done archery want to weigh in on the merits of the precise vs. rapid?

 

[Ravellion]

I'd pick up Precise Shot now, as the accuracy will be killing you for some time to come as your BAB is not +1 per level. Besides, Rapid shot without Precise Shot would just mean you would receive the -4 penalty twice. Then I'd go for Rapid SHot, then work myself up to Psionic Shot and other psionic power point charged feats.

Rav

 

[Graf]

I'd pick up Precise Shot now, as the accuracy will be killing you for some time to come as your BAB is not +1 per level.

The character is now CL 5 and this advise turned out to be painfully prophetic. I went with the cool-roleplaying feats (or at least the feats I felt the character would take) instead of combat oriented stuff like Point Blank Shot and Precise shot.

Despite aquireing a 2nd level power that allows me to double arrows (giving me two hits with a good attack roll*) my combat contributions have been..... minimal. Given the game's combat orientation this has been more than a little bit unfortunate. Amusingly someone else died recently and is starting as a half-ogre (ECL +2 in our game) egoist melee specialist.
I'm confident that we'll have another painfully ineffectual combatant....

*=brilliant really, given my problems hitting already.

Thanks for the advice though.

 

[Nifft]

As a Psi-user, you have access to Feats that will make your comrades very jealous. Point-Blank Shot + Precise Shot are superior when combined with your already excellent mobility.

Do you already have Speed of Thought and Up the Walls? The latter is great for placing yourself in a commanding position to snipe away, though Levitate could work just as well.

Rapid Shot is a very nice Feat for the land-bound, but your focus should be on mobility.

-- Nifft

 

[Dinkeldog]

I would go for precise shot. That'll improve your chances to hit by 20%. That or use your mobility to find ways to attack people that aren't in melee yet.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Have you considered Psionic Shot/Fell Shot? That would give you +1d4 damage for 1 pp and allow you to fire your bow as a Touch Attack for 5 pp. Expensive, but potentially good for specific instances.

 

[Graf]

So should I take Point Blank shot as my 6th level character feat?

Thanks for the advise. I have to admit that I used to think that Psionic shot/Fell shot was expensive and useless but if I had it there were more than a few times I'd probably have used it.

I don't think following the movement chain to Up the Walls is a good idea. While psionic charge rocks for melee combatants (especially with the new charge rules) I'm not one. And we rarely seem to fight anywhere with multiple levels....

just so you know roughly what the character looks like (AKA just how well I managed not to optimize the bow-character for shooting arrows):
Classes minscapes psion 4/psy war 1; half-elf (uses elf stats); AC 19ish; hitpts 21 or 23.
(a warrior class with proficiency in martial weapons was required by the game thus the psi-war)

str 8, Dex 21, Con 8, Wis 13, Int 12, Cha 13

feats possessed
psionic body, manifesting protegy (bonus psion feat), Hide power (prequisit for Subconcious power - 3rd level feat), Speed of though (for Chronorebel prestige class - bonus feat from psy war 1)

Tactics
Generally: Yes. Mobility is where it's at and the psionic feats are quite nice. Despite my low hit points and AC I have been hit in melee combat once. With a movement speed of 40 (or 55 skating on flat ground) I can pick and choose my fights. And I have, occasionally, been the deciding shot taking down a foe (usually when we're retreating or the opponet is retreating).

Of course, I do my utmost to shoot at the far side of large creatures, opponets out of melee, etc. Our group is very heavily melee combat oriented though and we tend to get into melee pretty frequently. We do have one character with a spiked chain maybe I should talk about working with him better.
Using metaphysical weapon on bow and arrow I have a +8 to hit (1d8 damage after strength penalty is canceled by meta arrows). Firing about 50 to 100 arrows a game and would say that I hit around half of the time. So my average damage contribution is 2.25 points a round. With the no/low damage causing rounds concentrated around those important pinch times (powerful creatures with high ACs that are chewing through a party member a round).

Upcoming powers
Combat Precog (the +1 or +2 to hit power). This will probably help a little bit.
(also prequ for chronorebel)

Upcoming feats
I feel I need subconcous power, 5th level psion bonus feat next level, due to the low number of hit points (23). We're reaching the level where AoE attacks, random monster powers (digester anyone?), etc do more than my total hit points in one shot. Even assuming Lesser Body adjustment is up and running (with a manifesting stat bonus of +6) I think I need the 10 point cushion.

So I get one more feat, for being a 6th level character, next level.
Is point blank shot really worth it? At the fastest I'll have Precise shot at 9th level* and given my movement and bow range the last thing I want to be within 30 ft of something dangerous. (Of course when I am, those are the times that probably matter most...)

*- The game is ending in three sessions, so this is actually rather unlikely to get that far...

 

[Zhure]

Use a crossbow. Since your BAB is low and you don't have a BAB over 5, and you don't have rapid shot, you'll get the same number of attacks and do +1 damage. There's no penalty for a low STR.

Rapid reload will be your friend at higher levels. Your damage output won't be as high as a regular bow-user because your iterative attacks will be lower, but by then you'll have had a chance to pick up other feats.
Greg

 

[Graf]

Use a crossbow. Since your BAB is low and you don't have a BAB over 5, and you don't have rapid shot, you'll get the same number of attacks and do +1 damage. There's no penalty for a low STR.

Rapid reload will be your friend at higher levels. Your damage output won't be as high as a regular bow-user because your iterative attacks will be lower, but by then you'll have had a chance to pick up other feats.
Greg

Yeah some of the other players suggested that. The character isn't likely to use a crossbow, but it's not even a good idea from a min-max option.... Giving up a move action for +1 to damage is pretty terrible idea. Either that or you're basically standing still (which means very little ability to avoid the penalties for cover as people move around the battlefeild, give people healing potions, etc.)

 

[mooby]

Use a crossbow. Since your BAB is low and you don't have a BAB over 5, and you don't have rapid shot, you'll get the same number of attacks and do +1 damage. There's no penalty for a low STR.

Rapid reload will be your friend at higher levels. Your damage output won't be as high as a regular bow-user because your iterative attacks will be lower, but by then you'll have had a chance to pick up other feats.
Greg

i second the crossbow option.

heck, id bet that nobody else in the party uses them, so if a magical one comes along, it's all yours!

I saw your response, and that you're against the X-Bow, but I just thought I'd try to convince you otherwise.


BTW, if your DM is letting you redo the characters for 3.5, why not drop the Psy-Warrior level altogether? That would make the X-Bow option much more viable.