Bracers of Armor obsolete?

[KarinsDad]

Actually, I believe it's only 1+ times per day. The wording is 3/day + Int modifier, minimum 1. I read that as the total is a minimum of 1/day. So a Sorcerer with int 6 would only be able to use the improved metamagic 1/day, but a sorcerer with int 4 would still be able to do 1/day (even though the total would normally be 0).

I thought it was "3/day + Int modifier minimum 1" as opposed to "3/day + Int modifier, minimum 1", but I could be mistaken. Even so, most Sorcerers I have seen have an Int of 10 or higher in order to acquire some skills. But, a Metamagic Specialist would be incentivized to have an even higher Int plus he would be incentived to acquire a Headband of Intellect. I could easily see a high level Metamagic Specialist being able to do this 6 to 8 times per day.

 

[Bad Paper]

Where does it say that armor and robe compete for the same slot? That is news to me.

 

[AuraSeer]

Where does it say that armor and robe compete for the same slot? That is news to me.

Go to this SRD page and look for the section titled "Magic Items On The Body."

You get one robe or suit of armor, but not both.

 

[jeffman]

Go Go Armored Mage!

Want to wear a magical chain shirt? take 5 levels of spellsword
OR
get a mithral twilight chain shirt....

Twilight doesn't take away from spellsword; it adds to this PrC, allowing them to take even heavier armor with no or greatly reduced ASF.

 

[jcfiala]

Where does it say that armor and robe compete for the same slot? That is news to me.

It's in the SRD: under 'Magic Items on the Body', listing the various places you can wear items:

"One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt)"

 

[Sejs]

Guys, given your arcane casters already have a very low level spell that lasts basically all day long (or at least all of your typical adventuring day) that provides and equal or better armor bonus as it is, as a force armor, why does it matter?

I mean, is enchanted mithral chain shirt with twilight actually worth more to you than the spell mage armor and greater mage armor (or is that improved mage armor)? I'd rather use that money on a different wand, and cast the low level spell.

Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. Oh my stars and garters! You can have this armor that completely neuters bracers of armor!

...Right, sure, or you can cast a first level spell and get Mage Armor for an hour per caster level.

Oh snap! Mithral buckler +5! You can have a +6 shield bonus to AC and it only costs around twenty-six thousand gold!

...Mmhmm, or you can cast a different first level spell and get a +4 shield bonus for free with Shield.


Really, I don't really see the issue. The cost-to-benefit is that you can blow a whole lot of gold to have access to a defensive benefit that primarily applies if someone gets the drop on you. Beyond that a spellcaster can pretty much keep pace just using his own spells.

 

[jcfiala]

3) Metamagic Specialist allows Sorcerers to spontaneously cast Quicken Spells (if they take the Quicken Spell feat) 4 or more times per day. This is huge since Sorcerers can already be metamagic specialists. Compare this to the Sudden Quicken feat which has 6 feat prereqs (hence, Sorcerers cannot get it at all until 15th or 18th level unless they have a special PrC) and can only be done once per day. Granted, the feat does not increase the spell level, but the fact that Sorcerers can spontaneously Quicken compared to everyone else only being able to Quicken by preparing spells (shy of a metamagic rod or Sudden Quicken) and this is real huge.

So, Sorcerers can start Quickening spells at 9th level 4 or more times per day with one feat whereas previously, they could only do it once per day by taking 7 specific feats by 15th level. This totally changes the balance of power between Sorcerers and other classes with a single feat.

No, when I read it it says '3+int bonus (minimum 1)', which to me means '1 or more times a day'. So, int is no longer a dump stat, which is a fairly big change to the Sorcerer, I think.

Sorcerers are heavy Metamagic users, that's true, but they have to be to make up for their limited spell supply. Quickening a Magic Missle as a 5th level spell makes up for the fact that they only have at most 4 5th level spells. I just don't see the cheese - then again, very few people around here seem to like playing Sorcerers at all.

 

[KarinsDad]

No, when I read it it says '3+int bonus (minimum 1)', which to me means '1 or more times a day'. So, int is no longer a dump stat, which is a fairly big change to the Sorcerer, I think.

Sorcerers, at least in the games I've played in, never dumped Int below 10. Skills like Concentration and Spellcraft are just too important.

Sorcerers are heavy Metamagic users, that's true, but they have to be to make up for their limited spell supply. Quickening a Magic Missle as a 5th level spell makes up for the fact that they only have at most 4 5th level spells. I just don't see the cheese - then again, very few people around here seem to like playing Sorcerers at all.

The cheese is in things like:

1) Quickened True Strike followed by a mega ranged touch spell (presumably metamagicked). Remember, True Strike gets rid of concealment miss chance as well.

2) Quickened Improved Invisibility followed by a high level spell followed by movement. This prevents most AoOs and it makes it difficult for opponents to know where the Sorcerer is located. The Sorcerer does not need to Cast Defensively since very few threatening opponents will get an AoO.

3) Transmute Rock to Mud followed by Quickened Dispel Magic (which is automatic for your own spells).


This totally takes away the concept of a Sorcerer deciding whether to cast offensively or defensively since he can do both in the same round.

 

[jcfiala]

The cheese is in things like:

1) Quickened True Strike followed by a mega ranged touch spell (presumably metamagicked). Remember, True Strike gets rid of concealment miss chance as well.

2) Quickened Improved Invisibility followed by a high level spell followed by movement. This prevents most AoOs and it makes it difficult for opponents to know where the Sorcerer is located. The Sorcerer does not need to Cast Defensively since very few threatening opponents will get an AoO.

3) Transmute Rock to Mud followed by Quickened Dispel Magic (which is automatic for your own spells).


This totally takes away the concept of a Sorcerer deciding whether to cast offensively or defensively since he can do both in the same round.

But that's no different than what a wizard can do, and Wizards at least get bonus feats. The Sorcerer is spending one of his precious few feat slots on a feat he can use only 3-4 times a day - whereas the Wizard is knocking off quicked True Strikes, Magic Missles, etc as desired.

 

[reanjr]

I don't know, KD... I personally think this addition to the Sorcerer was a great idea. And they still have to pay the spell slot for quickening... so they are only quickening 0-level spells at 9th level. Wizards would have been doing this since 7th level.

And it means that Scorcers have another stat that isn't for dumping... YMMV

Mike

I allow Sorcerers wo spontaneously cast metamagics with no casting time increase anyway. Works out without issue. Sorcerers are pretty shafted in general compared to Wizards.