Brave New Planes OOC

[Brother Shatterstone]

It's not going to be like that, I suspect. Sandorel considers the party and their adventures more like a passtime, at least at this stage. He's not as committed to the party as Brystasia is and will likely be content to let her run things as long as it doesn't interfere with his plans too much.

I think that’s a shame, he should be the party leader but if he doesn't want the function I guess it would still fall upon Brystasia but I imagine that she will be stepping on your toes allot. Killing gods isn't a good thing, making spells that elevate you to their status isn't a good thing either.

Ooc our character's charisma mean little and I'm not going to be able to impose my will on the rest of you anyway.

If our charisma scores mean little to nothing than why did you make the spell?

To be honest I don't expect you to being to force your will on this character... but I expect that if you make the spell you should suffer the repercussions of it. Your charisma is doubled, or nearly so, of Brystasia. Like it or not your the group leader.

The balance of power in this party has changed, this should be reflected upon are style of play and how are characters interact, theirs a small chance you can’t kill the rest of the party with your charisma spell. (Oh look at divine shield from the complete warrior as your AC would go up 26 points or so.)

Now the above doesn’t break the game but when you cast your wisdom spell, what the DC for your spells going to be?

With that and the above feat I imagine that you could kill the rest of the party… Now you might be saying Sandorel would never kill the party but remember PA has to be able to toss something at us to make it a challenge and that’s going to get the rest of use killed.

Yes indeed the balance of this party and this game has changed.

 

[Serpenteye]

He made the spell to be a more convincing speaker and weaken the gods by stealing their worshipers. (and to impress a girl )

With that and the above feat I imagine that you could kill the rest of the party… Now you might be saying Sandorel would never kill the party but remember PA has to be able to toss something at us to make it a challenge and that’s going to get the rest of use killed.

Yes indeed the balance of this party and this game has changed.

Disjunction is a 9th level spell and Sandorel has no defence against it. He can be killed just as easily as the rest of you and he's got plenty of enemies who might go after him but ignore the rest of the party. Sandorel is only one little mortal, way out of his league, but he's just become a threat to the gods and they will ignore that threat at their peril...
There are plenty of in-game justifications for Paxus to do whatever he likes about the percieved imbalance in the party.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Don't mind me it was just my last ditch effort to see something that's going to damage the game...

Anyhow, since I think I've spent too much time spreading Hate and Discontent today I shall change subjects.


I have my d20 Library list only most complete… I have like 6 books to add.
Link

 

[Serpenteye]

Paxus, do you feel that Sandorel's charisma boost is going to damage the game? If so I can change the spell to make it enhance Consitution or AC instead.

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Brother, that's an impressive list. How much did all that cost?

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Paxus, do you feel that Sandorel's charisma boost is going to damage the game? If so I can change the spell to make it enhance Consitution or AC instead.

The charisma isn't damaging to the game, just Brystasia psyche... but it does have the chance to be broken with the one feat I mention and changing the charisma spell to a straight AC bonus will indeed be broken. (At least in my opinion.)

Honesty, It’s the wisdom spell that I think will break the game.

Brother, that's an impressive list. How much did all that cost?

Honesty? I don't have a clue but if I did I probably would not be as proud of it...

 

[Wrahn]

Disjunction is a 9th level spell and Sandorel has no defence against it.

If Paxus has to resort to using Disjunction in every combat to deal with you, Meekel isn't going to be adventuring with you long or he will have no magic items left.

Very seriously, I think the spells are bad for the health of the game. I would have no problem if you actually developed them, but Paxus's house rule allowed you to circumvent the control on what Epic Spell casting is supposed to be able to do. Unbalanced games don't last long, and you are certainly making it unbalanced. I would ask you to reconsider these spells and this line of character development.

 

[Serpenteye]

If Paxus has to resort to using Disjunction in every combat to deal with you, Meekel isn't going to be adventuring with you long or he will have no magic items left.

Very seriously, I think the spells are bad for the health of the game. I would have no problem if you actually developed them, but Paxus's house rule allowed you to circumvent the control on what Epic Spell casting is supposed to be able to do. Unbalanced games don't last long, and you are certainly making it unbalanced. I would ask you to reconsider these spells and this line of character development.

The only thing he house-ruled was backlash damage, which I don't use as a mitigator in the spells. Broken or not, my spells are purely core.
Maybe epic magic needs to be changed, maybe we need to impose limitations on the mitigating factors, but in that case we need a concrete rule that limits what we can and cannot do.
If we limit epic spells too much they are going to become useless. The epic spells in the book are terribly designed and incredibly expensive. You cannot create a normal fireball spell in epic without paying hundreds of thousands of gps and thousands of experience points. The only way to make it worthwile is to look carefully at the rules and then exploit them for all that they are worth. It's a terrible system, and it may need to be remade entirely.

 

[Endur]

The 3.0 Epic Spellcasting feat is in the process of being remade completely for 3.5.

No idea exactly when the new version will be released. I'm guessing it will be in the 3.5 version of the Epic book. I'm certain it will have a mininum cost.

Even if it is remade completely, I'm not sure that they are going to change the "crowd of clerics" aspect. A crowd of clerics should be able to do far more than any individual cleric. That is, after all, how Gods are made (according to some people).

 

[Wrahn]

The only thing he house-ruled was backlash damage, which I don't use as a mitigator in the spells. Broken or not, my spells are purely core.
Maybe epic magic needs to be changed, maybe we need to impose limitations on the mitigating factors, but in that case we need a concrete rule that limits what we can and cannot do.
If we limit epic spells too much they are going to become useless. The epic spells in the book are terribly designed and incredibly expensive. You cannot create a normal fireball spell in epic without paying hundreds of thousands of gps and thousands of experience points. The only way to make it worthwile is to look carefully at the rules and then exploit them for all that they are worth. It's a terrible system, and it may need to be remade entirely.

I agree that the Epic casting is incredibly punishing, but as you have demonstrated, it should be. The power of the epic system is there is no upper limit, things that usually are capped at +6 can be, for instance, made +46 (a number taken off the top of my head ). Honestly using the rules, I can not see them being used until much higher level (26 is around minimum)

You are missing my point however, I don't care if it is a first level spell, engraved in stone by Gary Gygax himself, if it grossly overbalances the game, it is a bad thing.

/shrug I have made my case, if you don't find it convincing, so be it. I may not even be correct, but that is what my experience tells me. Please realize that I am not attack you, just voicing my concerns.

(According to the ELH, have Followers who are something other than a Commoner, Warrior, or Expert is an optional rule, one which states it is +2 level for an Adept or Aristicrat. Paxus allowed the optional rule and lowered it to +0 for NPC classes, thus making your spells possible. It is only allowable from a House ruling, though it is still possible with epic leadership and the DM allowing an optional rule)

 

[Serpenteye]

And I suppose you are going to have objections to Sandorel and his followers summoning spellcasting outsiders using a spell with permanent duration, and then having them join in an ever larger circle to cast ever more powerful spells . That is my plan for world domination, you know...
That would break the game, I have no illusions about that, but Sandorel's abitions are so much greater than your average dungeon-delver's and he's doing it not to overcome random encounters with the party but to achieve a personal spiritual goal. Off course it's not going to be allowed, but it would be silly of me not to make the attempt.
I'm willing to adapt to the rest of the party, but I'm going to have to hear what the DM has to say first. I am finding your case very convincing.